"Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by simonwheeler » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:12 pm

We met Robin at last year’s Wigtown Book Festival. He and I got chatting and he told us about his own dowsing. He invited us to visit what he believed to be the site of Merlin’s grave. I am ashamed to say that, even though he gave us his phone number etc, we have never taken him up on this. Interesting and very nice man.
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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by Grahame » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:26 pm

simonwheeler wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:12 pm
He invited us to visit what he believed to be the site of Merlin’s grave.
He's invited me to do the same a couple of times! It's not really my specialist area so I haven't followed it up, but if you fancy a day trip, perhaps we could organise something together? It's an interesting neck of the woods around there anyway.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it - Terry Pratchett.

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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by simonwheeler » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 pm

Sounds like a plan. Bit busy with life at present but how about we rain check this for a few weeks? Jacquie keen too.
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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by Grahame » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:13 pm

(looking for the 'thumbs up' button...) :lol: :lol:
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it - Terry Pratchett.

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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by Geoff Stuttaford » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:11 pm

Many years ago I attended a session carried out by a trance medium friend. During this session Geoffrey of Monmouth came through because he wanted to stress that everything he had written had been passed to him, from Strata Florida Abbey , in documentf form, hat he was told were written by some of the descendants of those who escaped the Fall of Troy. Geoffrey emphasised that he boy thamscribed those documents in book form and he was not responsible for the accuracy of the information they contained. He said that he had been told that Merlin had been born in a village near Carmarthen.
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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by Grahame » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:49 pm

Geoff Stuttaford wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:11 pm
Geoffrey emphasised that he boy thamscribed those documents in book form and he was not responsible for the accuracy of the information they contained. He said that he had been told that Merlin had been born in a village near Carmarthen.
According to Clarkson, Geoffrey of Monmouth's account Vita Merlini was based on earlier poems written in archaic Welsh that he had been told, which featured an enigmatic forest-dwellng figure called Myrddin, so your dowsing fits in with that.

Clarkson's argument is that these older poems are actually of Lowland Scots origin, written in Old Welsh (which was widely spoken in Scotland at the time). He cites a manuscript in the British Library, which contains 8 chapters of 'Life of Kentigern' together with an abridged version of Vita Merlini, and a unique text entitled 'Vita Merlini Silvestri' (Life of Merlin of the Forest). The first half of the latter describes the encounter between Kentigern and a naked, hairy madman called Lailoken.

Clarkson goes on to demonstrate that this is the ur-manuscript of the Lailoken/Myrddin story as it appears to predate everything else. It's a pretty convincing thesis IMO.
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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by Ian Pegler » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:45 pm

The Black Book of Carmarthen:

https://bit.ly/2P3vXJt

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Re: "Merlin was Scottish" say Scots (there's a shock)

Post by Grahame » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:02 pm

Ian Pegler wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:45 pm
The Black Book of Carmarthen:
Exactly. Thanks for the link Ian. The relevant passage is:
The Black Book of Carmarthen wrote:This small core refers to a legend concerning a warrior who goes mad during the Battle of Arfderydd fought c. 573 between Rhydderch Hael and Gwenddolau, two rival kings of British tribes in the 'Old North' and who, on the defeat of his master Gwenddolau, flees to the Caledonian Forest where he lives as a wild man and acquires the art of prophecy. Later, this story was relocated in Wales. However, it was Geoffrey of Monmouth in his History of the Kings of Britain (1136) who first gave this prophet of Welsh tradition the name of Myrddin and connected him with the town of Carmarthen (Caerfyrddin). In 'Ymddiddan Myrddin a Thaliesin', we encounter Geoffrey's Myrddin in conversation with the poet Taliesin, who was also credited with prophetic powers.
Both Clarkson and Crichton point towards Arfderydd as being the motte of Liddell's Strength at the junction of the Esk and Liddell rivers near Longtown.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it - Terry Pratchett.

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