Measuring Earth Energies?

[BobD]

I'm sure that the concept of "taint" could be applied to a choice of scale, a question of yes/no, or even the tool(s) we use to dowse or divine. But if you don't trust your method or your source you can always try a different method or source and test it against some more "objective" reality. Even something like a measured distance between two points will work in that you can grab a measuring tape to test it later. When you are comfortable with the method/source the question of "taint" will only possibly apply to cases of "wishful thinking" (in yourself) or "negative thoughts in others. Any type of measurement is subject to observational errors of this sort, whether in the "hard" sciences or in the pseudosciences. Self-discipline, practice, careful and logical experimental design, and repetition help. I was trained in math, science, and experimental design, so when I discovered dowsing at age 29 (now almost 62) I naturally used what I knew to work on what I didn't have a clue about. I still do the same.

Now I suppose I'll need to spend some time checking out Bovis units, the Bishop's rule, and some other techniques to expand my repertoire. So much to learn!!

[simonwheeler]

When you are comfortable with the method/source the question of "taint" will only possibly apply to cases of "wishful thinking" (in yourself) or "negative thoughts in others.

Do so agree!

[ocd]

simon and bob;

Thank you for your replies, up until recently I hadn't dowsed for about 6 years.
One of the reasons I stopped was because I thought my own preferences were affecting the dowsing response that I was getting.
I was interested in trying to formulate scales for energy dowsing, but I found preference and the asking of black or white questions difficult to process or trust.

I'm going to ponder what you've said, and then dowse some more.

ocd

[BobD]

Getting comfortable with your processes and instruments is important in any sort of investigation. There are so many ways to dowse and divine, just in the mechanical sense. You can simply use some body part; I use my right arm bent at the elbow and when I cross a "target" my right forearm swings about 4 inches inward toward my belly. When I pass over the spot my arm swings back to my side.

When I first began to dowse I used simple forked twigs, much to the chagrin of more experienced dowsers I met who were utilizing fancy L-rods, pendulums, and Y-rods made from exotic materials, with crystals on them, and others who used radionics devices with silver rubbing plates and calibration dials. We all got nearly the same results, but I got tired of mutilating a tree every time I wanted to dowse, so I stepped up to 12-gauge, solid copper electrical wire bent in half with a twist at the bend to keep it from breaking after repeated flexing. At first I had to be bare-handed and use stripped wire, but eventually I could work with thick mittens and plastic-coated wire. Since I first worked outdoors a lot, sometimes in severe cold with howling winds, these changes came in quite handy for obtaining speedy and reliable results.

The scales I use are arbitrary except when I'm trying to correlate the information I get with another means of measurement. Even MHz and GHz are arbitrary for my purposes, especially since many of the energies I find are not electromagnetic in nature, they may consist of multiple frequencies, and the frequencies may vary over time. For example, I find that ordinary underground water veins have a von Pohl intensity of -15 at night but -13 during daytime. They also change energy direction and their pattern shifts from 3 sets of 3 vertical planes at night to 23 equidistant vertical planes during daytime. I'm pretty sure that this much shifting in other aspects correlates with frequency shifts also.

Using dowsing and divination has become pretty habitual for me. I've used it in the past for water detection, location, depth soundings, flow rates, and potability studies (water is so easy to find here anyway). Back when I did soil consulting work for farmers I used it for a quick check of available nutrient levels, before I sent a soil sample off to a lab. I've checked eggs for fertility and sex. I've checked how long it takes for freshly-ground grains to become "dead". I've helped folks surreptitiously using a pendulum in our local natural food co-op to find the ideal food supplement. I've used it to find the current location (direction and distance; "divdar"?) of people I was waiting for. And, of course, I now look for energies of all sorts.

My point in all of this rambling is that it takes some time to figure out what works best for you. All I know is that I couldn't afford all of the fancy and expensive instrumentation it would take to achieve the above without dowsing. What I obtained more cheaply still required rigorous thought, some planning, loads of experimentation, cross-checking with other means of measurement, and patient practice. And the warranty hasn't expired on my equipment yet.

[ocd]

thank you Bob;

My preferred method of dowsing is two brass L rods which I made with a hacksaw and a file, a few years ago I could use other tools to dowse as well including my body.
Getting a reaction has never really been a problem for me, what I question is whether that reaction comes from an open mind or a pre-conceived idea?
To obtain freedom from desire has occupied the greatest eastern and western philosophers for a long time, and I question my ability to dowse with a truly open mind, free from desire.
I'm okay with the method of dowsing and the instruments used to point at the answers, it's more the answers themselves that pose the problems.

Describe the St Michael and Mary lines, what are they?
How many descriptions would we get from different dowsers here?
How many of those descriptions would be based on the ideologies of the individual dowsers in question?
I could say that these two lines are serpentine and twist and turn travelling across Britain from Cornwall to Norfolk, crossing at certain sacred places along the way.
Lots of dowsers may agree with that, but it doesn't answer what they actually are?
The deeper into the question I go, the more likely my answers will based on my ideologies?
Does the dowsers intuition come from an open mind or their expectation of a base Ideology that they would like to fit into a personal model of the universe?

Respectfully ocd

[simonwheeler]

Does the dowsers intuition come from an open mind or their expectation

I suggest intuition comes from neither mind nor expectation...

[ocd]

Interesting, is the intuition of the dowser divine?
or is it a natural process?
or is it intention?
or am I putting intuition into boxes that suit my base values?

[DarkChestofWonders]

Hi ocd,

ocd wrote,
Is the intuition of the dowser divine?
Is it a natural process?
Is it intention?
Am I putting intuition into boxes that suit my base values?

Have you tried dowsing your own questions for a yes or no answer?

ocd wrote
it's more the answers themselves that pose the problems

I find it harder to form the question correctly, but then again you can ask as many questions as you like but you still only get a yes or no.

Meanwhile Grahame's Sun and Serpent post answers an earlier question of yours here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3817

As you live in Cornwall did you know Michael and Mary maps are available in sections here http://www.penwithpress.co.uk/michael-mary-maps you may find one local to you that will enable you to get some hands on experience.

Alan

[BobD]

I have no idea what a Mary or Michael line might be without investigating one. But, since I was educated as a phenomenologist while in college many years ago, I start with some pretty basic questions and a suspension of either belief or disbelief. That seems to be the hardest part to learn, not the dowsing process. Even the questioning comes with some preconceptions. For me, dowsing is like a blind guy poking around with a stick, trying to make sense of the elephants tail, trunk, legs, etc. Put enough data together and it starts to make sense, but call it a Mary or a Michael and it's just a name loaded with more preconceptions. That's why my energy list is mainly descriptive, only using names, like Curry or Hartmann, where they've been in previous wide use.

Intuition, for me, is just a process of wiping the slate clean and listening. When I get it right my rational brain can be fully occupied telling folks what I'm up to as I dowse, walking around obstacles with ease, all while tracking down the 3-D particulars of some novel energy formation. Its like playing as I did when I was a child, with a simultaneous sense of wonder, fun, and accomplishment. If it weren't so I wouldn't do it.

[ocd]

Hello Alan and Bob;

I've followed those links before Alan and I have dowsed both of those lines often.
What I was kind of getting at was that the interpretation of what the Michael and Mary lines are, is more complicated than just describing where they flow?
And that interpretation can be different from dowser to dowser?

For Bob the Michael and Mary lines were named as two component parts of the St Michael Ley which is an imaginary line scribed across southern Britain with lots of sacred sites falling on or near to the line.
Two British dowsers decided to dowse the Ley and found it was made up of two Serpentine or sinuous meandering energy lines, one being masculine in feel and the other feminine.
The two lines crossed each other continuously at various points travelling the length of southern Britain.
One of the lines passed through many churches dedicated to St Michael, the other passed through many churches dedicated to Mary, hence their names.
I used them as an example because many dowsers over here have heard of them or dowsed them.

As far as I'm aware, please correct me if I'm wrong, the Curry and Hartmann grids can be picked up with instruments other than the diviner.
I don't think this is the case with Serpentine energy lines like the Michael and Mary lines, therefore simply put, what are they?
How can they be used or interpreted and does that interpretation come from an open mind or the base ideologies of the person dowsing them at the time?
Does usage of energy require a complete understanding of what that energy is?
Is the understanding of that energy biased by the dowser?

Happy Christmas


ocd

[BobD]

Back in the early 2000s, when I was researching earlier work on energy pathways, I came across mentions of the Mary and Michael lines. I did some map dowsing for these locally and found the masculine lines flowing through LaCrosse, Wisconsin and the female lines through nearby Winona, Minnesota. When I worked as a department manager in Winona's natural food co-op I noticed that, when the store was empty enough to only require one of its three check-out lines, customers and clerks seemed to always use the middle register. I thought this was odd and simply HAD to pull out a dowsing rod. It turns out that, of the eleven widely-spaced vertical planes in the local "Mary" line, one of them flowed through that spot in the co-op. Theses lines do not, however, flow through the St. Mary Seminary in Winona, Oh well.....

Can this human preference for this energy somehow tell us what the line IS? Can I even know what I really AM based on dowsable characteristics? I'm sure that a complete understanding, or even an accurate interpretation of any phenomenon is difficult for such sensory-limited organisms as humans. But the better I know myself, both my limitations and my abilities, the better I can filter out the clutter to get to cleaner data. Dowsing, at least for me, requires high sensitivity, high selectivity, and active noise filtration.

[ocd]

Ha, I liked that post Bob, there should always be mystery in life.

[BobD]

OK, back to the original posting about frequencies. I just used my log scale to check what I call "Wet Etheric Lines" or underground veins of water. They appear to have two frequencies, one that dominates during the night at around 5 x 10 to the 10th Hz (50 GHz, or 50 GigaHertz) and one that dominates during daytime at approximately 4 x 10 to the 12th Hz (4 THz, or 4 TeraHertz). I don't have any EMF test instruments that range high enough to check this, but would any dowsers like to have a go at confirming/denying/refining that?

[Brownbear]

For me all your opinions and explanations are extremely interesting.Thanks.
My main activities have been indoor dowsing with a pendulum , for area survey sometimes using a floorplan.
To come back for a moment to yes/no answers : I am glad to see that not only I have some problems and feel not really comfortable with this.When I give my pendulum a starting movement in neutral position,and it gets a small (accidental ?) deviation,I suspect my brain might consider this as conclusion and cause this to move further.Instead of "wishfull thinking" "too early conclusion".Should I close my eyes at the start of measurement? Does not look very practicle.
With a scale you can also have the effect of wishfull thinking.Somebody has suggested for minimizing this,to keep repeating in mind continuously your question.
Jan

[BobD]

Yes, I think repetition is a good strategy, along with checking the results by asking the logical reverse of your first question. With a measurement I often check things by asking if the figure I'm after is above or below a certain value, narrowing the range as I proceed. I then work the process backwards just to be sure I got it right. Beyond that I'm at the mercy of whoever or whatever is giving me the answer.

I have never had great results with a pendulum. It seems almost too sensitive, and I can rarely tell, as you say, when the result is a positive response or an inadvertent muscle spasm. L-rods also have been problematic for me, although I have used them for demonstration purposes. With a Y-rod, held in palms-up position (or the tiny bicycle brake cable, single strand, 4-inch Y-rod that I hold between thumbs and forefingers for map dowsing), the response when locating a target or getting a yes/no answer has always been very quick, sure, and strong. When I first started dowsing with a Y-branch I noticed that, if I used a very fresh one and held it VERY firmly, the bark would strip off. If I held on even tighter the twig would snap off in response. Who or whatever gives the answers doesn't fool around!