Rennes le Chateau

[arthur hamlin]

This may upset some people but I continue to obtain the same dowsing response even though I have Christian leanings.
Many will accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross at Easter but my dowsing response says otherwise because of the time it took for the first known written accounts that took place after his death.

It is believed that several men had the name Jesus than and that there was a mistaken identity.

My dowsing also says that the written note found in the damaged pillar at Rennes le Chateau in Southern France by the priest early in the last century stated just that.
It is known that the Priest took this note to the religeous authority in Paris. But my dowsing says he was paid handsomely to stay quiet and people where he lived wondered how he was able to be living a more lavish lifestyle.

Any other Dowsing responses on this one would be appreciated.

Arthur

[Geoff Stuttaford]

(Arthur) Many will accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross at Easter but my dowsing response says otherwise because of the time it took for the first known written accounts that took place after his death. It is believed that several men had the name Jesus than and that there was a mistaken identity.

(G) A friend of mine and I dowsed that many years ago, Arthur, and a lot of othere things that turned out to be errors subsequntly written up by the church later on including the belief that Jesus was a god and therefore could not have had children so Mary Magdalene was presented as a lady of ill repute. The attitrude towards woman that still obtains in the middle east and some other countries could well have been prevalent in those days. We found that dowsing the truth of what was written in the New Testament was extremely difficult. Many present day dowsers had past lives in that period so first hand evidence is relatively easy to obtain using regression techniques. One of the anomolies we found was that there was a man called Jesus who was the one time leader of the Essenes, a hunchback, with the avowed intention of obtaining the title of 'King of the Jews' and some of the stories about him came to be linked with the other Jesus.

(A) My dowsing also says that the written note found in the damaged pillar at Rennes le Chateau in Southern France by the priest early in the last century stated just that. It is known that the Priest took this note to the religeous authority in Paris. But my dowsing says he was paid handsomely to stay quiet and people where he lived wondered how he was able to be living a more lavish lifestyle.

(G) Confirmed. I am also advised that there are several other examples of written evidence of this kind in various other places and these are still being hunted by fundamentalist groups who regard the writings as heresy and therefore must be destroyed.

[Bonnie]

My dowsing indicates that there were three men whose intertwined lives produced the composite picture presented by Christian tradition. Though these were three different biological human beings, they were not essentially separate; they were three aspects of the same soul, and perhaps this is the esoteric reason for the close association of Christianity with trinitarian symbolism. The combined lives, experiences and energies of these three men coalesced in the historical idea of Jesus, codified as one person whose life embodied all of the elements subsequently developed by the Church in the matrix of collective human experience.

This does not diminish the meaning or potency of the historical figure of Jesus; indeed, the spiritual energy behind the three men, culminating in a one-pointed vision of Jesus, testifies to the primary power and transformative force of this Idea of God (if you will). For the Church, the major heresy has always lain in the knowledge that the trinity involved multiple physical manifestations, as well as spiritual energies which the Church - self-identified as the literal Body of Christ - could mold in ways its leaders deemed fit.

The fact that the Church presented itself as the literal embodiment of the Divine Idea has so conflated physical-plane issues, that dowsing the development of Christianity is - as Geoff notes - very difficult. There are simply too many conflated levels of meaning to get clarity on the dogma. As former US President Bill Clinton so famously said, "It depends on what your definition of is, is."

That said, I was raised in the Episcopalian church and my faith is stronger now than it was when I tried to make sense of the mixed messages presented by church apologetics. Dowsing has enriched my appreciation of the mysteries within the life of the spirit; religion, per se, has only touched the hem of the garment.

[simonwheeler]

I may have posted this link before....not sure...it is to a Steiner theory that those interested in this debate may like to consider

[Bonnie]

That's a good concise statement about some of Steiner's positions, thank you Simon. I have studied anthroposophy for a number of years and have never been able to get my dowsing to agree that there were two Jesus children - I always get three.

[Geoff Stuttaford]

(Bonnie) My dowsing indicates that there were three men whose intertwined lives produced the composite picture presented by Christian tradition. Though these were three different biological human beings, they were not essentially separate; they were three aspects of the same soul, and perhaps this is the esoteric reason for the close association of Christianity with trinitarian symbolism. The combined lives, experiences and energies of these three men coalesced in the historical idea of Jesus, codified as one person whose life embodied all of the elements subsequently developed by the Church in the matrix of collective human experience.

(G) Well, slap me on the buttocks (a la Forest Gump) with a baseball bat ! We never went that far, Bonnie, but when I dowse it now I do get confirmation that there were at least three men (rather than two) called Jesus existing at that time and that three of them were three aspects of the same soul. I asked whether the leader of the Essenes I mentioned in my previous post was one of those aspects and got a No (rather glad about that answer as he was a rather unpleasant character by all accounts) I also get confirmation as to the rest of that paragraph.

(B) This does not diminish the meaning or potency of the historical figure of Jesus; indeed, the spiritual energy behind the three men, culminating in a one-pointed vision of Jesus, testifies to the primary power and transformative force of this Idea of God (if you will).

(G) I would suggest that it was more an example of moral rectitude and compassion in an age when there was an awful lot of problems in Palestine not all related to the Roman Occupation. It is possible that the tales of his exploits and sayings were completely different to anything else that was taking place at that time and that is what made them memorable, even today when similar situations exist on this planet.
I cannot regard Jesus as a god because Mankind has been inventing gods for eons.
I do dowse,however, that Jesus was not from this planet which could explain the so called Immaculate Conception.

(B) For the Church, the major heresy has always lain in the knowledge that the trinity involved multiple physical manifestations, as well as spiritual energies which the Church - self-identified as the literal Body of Christ - could mold in ways its leaders deemed fit.

(G) Aye, There’s the rub.

(B) The fact that the Church presented itself as the literal embodiment of the Divine Idea has so conflated physical-plane issues, that dowsing the development of Christianity is - as Geoff notes - very difficult. There are simply too many conflated levels of meaning to get clarity on the dogma. As former US President Bill Clinton so famously said, "It depends on what your definition of is, is."

(G) Zackly ! Give the man a cigar !

(B) That said, I was raised in the Episcopalian church and my faith is stronger now than it was when I tried to make sense of the mixed messages presented by church apologetics. Dowsing has enriched my appreciation of the mysteries within the life of the spirit; religion, per se, has only touched the hem of the garment

(G) I suspect many people have te same problem (me included) but I do agree with you about the results from dowsing that, quite often, do not confirm the written word. It does, as you so aptly expressed it, make it seem that we have only touched the hem of the garment, but now that garment does feel different from what we expected....doswing can make it somewhat more believable.

[Bonnie]

I cannot regard Jesus as a god because Mankind has been inventing gods for eons.

I don't regard him as a god, either. The three Jesuses comprise a sort of hologram for me - a fleshed-out, 3-D picture of an idea in the mind of whatever it is that's behind the scenery.

Give the man a cigar !

I asked whether the leader of the Essenes I mentioned in my previous post was one of those aspects and got a No (rather glad about that answer as he was a rather unpleasant character by all accounts)

My dowsing confirms this. Whew!

[arthur hamlin]

Thanks for your various contributions.
Geoff, I remember you bringing up the aspect of the Jesus Christ we have read about not being crucified a couple of years back.
I became taken back with what you said to which my dowsing subsequently confirmed.
My dowsing now says that the Last Supper was to commemorate, give blessings and pray for the life of the other Jesus who was to be crucified within hours for his work in bringing Gods word to the people. I am told these two Jesus`s were well bonded as if twin souls, but the one crucified was not a disciple.
I am also told it was Thomas who brought the information written on Goat Skin to Rennes le Chateau which was placed in the pillar of the church.
Arthur

[Geoff Stuttaford]

(Arthur) Geoff, I remember you bringing up the aspect of the Jesus Christ we have read about not being crucified a couple of years back.

(G)Right !

(A)I became taken back with what you said to which my dowsing subsequently confirmed.
My dowsing now says that the Last Supper was to commemorate, give blessings and pray for the life of the other Jesus who was to be crucified within hours for his work in bringing Gods word to the people. I am told these two Jesus`s were well bonded as if twin souls, but the one crucified was not a disciple.

(G) I'm advised that as not te case, rather the occasion was to make sure that the others at the supper were aware of who his wife was and the esteem in which he held her....and it wasn't the Last supper either ! They met on several further occaions. I also find that none of the three Jususes that Bonnie mentioned was crucified.

(A) I am also told it was Thomas who brought the information written on Goat Skin to Rennes le Chateau which was placed in the pillar of the church.

(G) That is confirmed.

[arthur hamlin]

(G) I'm advised that as not te case, rather the occasion was to make sure that the others at the supper were aware of who his wife was and the esteem in which he held her....and it wasn't the Last supper either ! They met on several further occaions. I also find that none of the three Jususes that Bonnie mentioned was crucified.

(A) I get that it was Jesus`s girl friend (Mary Magdalene) being depicted at that time, not his wife yet.
I agree although not the `Last Supper` this particular well known picture I still get was to commemorate the life and work of the other Jesus who was also a healer but was about to be crucified and they were there to pray for his safe pain free delivery.
I still get only two by the name of Jesus were bonded very closely hence the mix up in the gospel stories.
Arthur

[Geoff Stuttaford]

(A) I get that it was Jesus`s girl friend (Mary Magdalene) being depicted at that time, not his wife yet

(G) .OK Accepted/ da Vnci knew a lot more than people give him credit for.

(A) I agree although not the `Last Supper` this particular well known picture I still get was to commemorate the life and work of the other Jesus who was also a healer but was about to be crucified and they were there to pray for his safe pain free delivery.
I still get only two by the name of Jesus were bonded very closely hence the mix up in the gospel stories.

(G) But there, Arthur, I’m afraid we have to agree to disagree.

[arthur hamlin]

Pity. If we could only find a way of getting our answers to be more reliable/similar than Jo public would be better connected with us.
I am of the opinion that if we were to ask each others sources to work with us on specific questions and to study the answers there could be a chance of eliminating the errors.
Arthur

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Hi Arthur. I don’t think there are errors. It is my opinion (as I have said before) that we have different sources and each of the answers these sources are correct as far as they are concerned. My investigations show that we get the majority of historical answers from people who were actually there at the time, .in effect, those who had first hand knowledge of events, but, although they may well be now in another incarnation their soul memories can be ‘tapped’ for answers to our questions. There are two problems that I believe we have to face.. Firstly, it is a fairly well fact that two people who witness the same event can give different descriptions of what happened…. Secondly, our own belief systems may interfere with our answers and are then confirmed by dowsing because the belief systems are contained in the much more powerful unconscious mind whereas the sub-conscious mind is connected to proper dowsing. I must stress that I think this theory is applicable, so far, only to historical events.

I would appreciate views on this theory.

[Bonnie]

I don’t think there are errors. It is my opinion (as I have said before) that we have different sources and each of the answers these sources are correct as far as they are concerned. My investigations show that we get the majority of historical answers from people who were actually there at the time, .in effect, those who had first hand knowledge of events, but, although they may well be now in another incarnation their soul memories can be ‘tapped’ for answers to our questions. There are two problems that I believe we have to face.. Firstly, it is a fairly well fact that two people who witness the same event can give different descriptions of what happened…. Secondly, our own belief systems may interfere with our answers and are then confirmed by dowsing because the belief systems are contained in the much more powerful unconscious mind whereas the sub-conscious mind is connected to proper dowsing. I must stress that I think this theory is applicable, so far, only to historical events.

I would appreciate views on this theory.

Geoff, this is precisely what I have dowsed, as well.

[simonwheeler]

Geoff: I would appreciate views on this theory.

My dowsing suggests you are at least partly right...indeed, largely so. But which part is "not quite right" I have yet to determine. I asked if Akashic Records are involved here and got "no".