Witchcraft

Esoteric discussions, spiritual ruminations, metaphysical mutterings etc.
Ian Pegler
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Re: Joseph Smith and dowsing

Post by Ian Pegler »

kazzer wrote:I am A British dowser living in Palmyra New York, home of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon faith. c 1830

Joe was purported to have found the golden tablets on a hillside nearby, and translated them into the book of Mormon. He was a dowser, using crystal seer stones.
For more on Joseph Smith and dowsing, see my paper Vermont Dowsing Roots, published in Dowsing Today Volume 40 No. 281 September 2003 (or CLICK HERE to read it online.).

I think I remember when I was reading David Persuitte's book (Joseph Smith and the Origins of the Book of Mormon) that he mentions the business about the scrying with a "peep"-stone placed on a hat, in relation to some sort of court-trial.

I believe that fear and prejudice towards dowsing is not particular to one Christian sect, but most Xtians are not that negative any more.

Ian
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Post by REE01 »

I think with all over ambitious doings things can get outta hand On both sides of any topic, but that doesnt stereotype the entire group, it's the individuals involved in the bafoonery only. I was looking up dowsing related subjects surfing, and found a denominational article about the ills of dowsing a few days ago from 1992 mentioning our site here. It was overblown and inaccurate to favor that groups position of course, but I suppose to say otherwise and seem balanced in that profession you would be demoted. I'm sure someone here remembers the article, being a dowser taking heat for using our senses and mind to help people wont ever make sense to me... :(

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/tex ... 0099a.html

I believe being made in God's image carrys each of us into the realm of being able to do the mysterious myself. Which way people may direct that energy is the bud that is being nipped, and the branch that is being pruned off, before the fruits of it are ever known good or bad, for the sake of those that are weakminded and would fall away make a religon out of it. :roll:

I'm just denouncing biased ignorance I see from all concreted mindset's !

http://www.freewebs.com/pensweepquantumvisions/
Last edited by REE01 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Kevin
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Post by Kevin »

Cheers that was really funny?
Have you read the seven list?
1,Dowsers go into a trance?
2,Psychic abilities?
3,It requires faith ?
4,Linked to the occult, who says so?
5,If you covert to christianity , it may hinder your abilities as a dowser, well thats me not going in them churchs again?
6,dowsing power is uncontrollable, supernatural?
7,Hazardous activity, harmfull side effects, no I have always had a third eye madam.
Kevin, god help us?
Ian Pegler
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Usual rubbish

Post by Ian Pegler »

Kevin wrote:Have you read the seven list?
You're right about that list, such appauling rubbish. Mostly invented, but also takes the words of a couple of dowsers and quotes them out of context too, just to make it look like they know what they're on about.

Ian
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Post by kazzer »

I guess the fact that I am a confirmed Athiest (see http://www.athiest.org has made me able to dowse without any inhibitions. Such a shame that all this religion has gotten us into the mess we are in today.

My, I even have to put up with a religious idiot as a president who actually vetoed stem cell research! OOOOOHHHHH!! SCARY!!!!!! Mustn't do that, his god doesn't approve. The fact that my mother died from complications of Alzheimers increases my chances of getting this pox on our planet, yet idiot Bush says 'NO'

A pox on him!

I'll write up an article on The Revealer regarding the badge supplied in the kit. It has powers relating to a cross! Most intriguing!
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Post by black.mac »

I've run into this attitude on a number of occasions. Been told I'm in leauge with the devil and all the usual rubbish. It simplyt confirms my belief that the fundementalists are the relics of some defunct age and best lefft to inhabit it until they die of thirst in the dark.
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Post by esgaroth »

Hello! I have been lurking on this forum for a bit, trying to read up on all that is said about dowsing. I have only recently come into the interest of dowsing through some connections I have concerning maintenance of a cemetery. The gentleman used dowsing rods to locate graves in a cemetery of approx 1000 interred, most of which are without grave markers. I became very intrigued.

I writing from Texas - I found the BSD in my internet research, and there were so many things being discussed that I found of interest that I decided to join. I hope that is all right.

If I may, I wanted to speak to the initial poster's comments about being accosted. As someone who IS Christian, I find such antagonism just as offensive as the rest of you. I cringe when another human being places judgement on my heart when they barely know me, and I know nothing about them and their spiritual journey. As a Christian, I would have reminded her she was committing the sin of Pride by doing God's job for Him. Suffice it to say, I would like to express that your research into the historical past of clergy using dowsing points more to your instincts and understanding than that rude stranger's. But I have a slight disagreement with the reasons why she might have verbally attacked you.

Some noted that there was a limitation of dowsing to the priesthood. Might it not make sense that these men, who have dedicated their lives to the service of God, and spent hours upon hours meditating and studying the word of God, might not be more disposed to wanting to protect a craft they found useful in administering the faith? For lack of a more intelligent analogy, I am thinking it would be the difference between a secretary of a doctor's office giving medical advice and prescriptions and the actual doctor. There has to be a 'proper alignment' don't you think to obtain the most information and thus come to a proper response? I tend to think that if spiritual men were wishing to protect a spiritual tool, they would want to safeguard those less skilled from coming to harm.

These were just some thoughts I was having while reading everone's posts.

Saying all of that, I disagree with the woman's accusation that dowsing is witchcraft, but I do think there is a bit of a point she has about it: in the Christian point of view, witchcraft isnt just about rebelling against God, its denying him. Now, for those who do not follow Christianity or any religion, this is not a problem, but for a Christian to say they follow Christ and all his teachings and the teachings of the forefathers, where it is taught that a child of God need nothing more than God Himself, to turn around and use witchcraft, where there is a concentrated effort to obtain power, is to essentially make oneself a hypocrit. Thats where the warning lies: to use witchcraft with the intention of doing God's work for Him is to deny Him and say that He is not needed. Doing anything that distracts the Christian seeker from searching out God is considered sinful.

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE WHAT I JUST SAID AS PREACHING OR AN ATTEMPT TO CONVERT. I am merely trying to explain the line of thought in Christian theology. If one is of a different belief system, I am not interested in converting you. Just trying to explain how *I* understand the Christian life.

Hoping I havent gone and put my foot into it....
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Re: Witchcraft

Post by Helen-Healing »

Sig wrote:.. in the Witches Museum in Boscastle in Cornwall, there is a long stick with a tiny Y at the top - I believe hikers today call it a thumb stick. But it was in the witches museum. My feeling is that these sticks can be used for visual dowsing. Place the bottom end of the stick against the thing you want to "see", and press your closed eyeballs against the forked Y at the other end. You would be surprised at what you can see.
}:-)
I find that very interesting! I spent last weekend at the Mercian Gathering near Nuneaton - a fascinating annual get-together of pagans, druids & wiccans etc. There were many artisans there, and I came across one selling staffs, or staves, many of wych (pardon the pun :wink: ) had this small Y at the top. Yes, and they were made of hazel! :)

I started making one of my own at a workshop that was going on there, but when the kids found us, and started wielding extremely sharp knives, I left the party before the blood started to flow!! So mine never got finished - pity. I shall have to go out & find a hazel branch of my own & make it at home.
Ian Pegler
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Protecting us from the divine?

Post by Ian Pegler »

esgaroth wrote:Some noted that there was a limitation of dowsing to the priesthood. Might it not make sense that these men, who have dedicated their lives to the service of God, and spent hours upon hours meditating and studying the word of God, might not be more disposed to wanting to protect a craft they found useful in administering the faith? For lack of a more intelligent analogy, I am thinking it would be the difference between a secretary of a doctor's office giving medical advice and prescriptions and the actual doctor. There has to be a 'proper alignment' don't you think to obtain the most information and thus come to a proper response? I tend to think that if spiritual men were wishing to protect a spiritual tool, they would want to safeguard those less skilled from coming to harm.
There are three points I wish to make:

First, regarding my point regarding divination being restricted to the priesthood: anyone who wasn't a Jewish priest who was caught practicing some form of divination would have either be guilty of impersonating a Jewish priest or guilty of paganism.

Why? Because all divination, from an old-world point of view, required an appeal to a deity. Today some dowsers today use modern jargon in place of the notion of a deity ("higher self", "akashic records", "extended consciousness", "information field") but back there and then such these notions did not exist, so DIVINE-ing was, in the ancient world, always an appeal to some deity or spirit, and either way you were undermining the authority of the "real" Jewish priests by practicing divination illegally.

This is the real reason why divination was barred from the laity, and lest we forget, if you were found "guilty" you were killed (Exodus 22:18). So much for wanting to "protect" people.

I notice you avoid the much more obvious analogy of the protectionist attitude of the medical profession towards complimentary and alternative therapies - I guess because such an analogy would never wash in a place like this! Are doctors really trying to "protect" us from the "less skillful" herbalists?

I realise I'm putting words in your mouth, almost, but did you really not think of this analogy when you were just oh so close?

Second point, what makes you think that ancient Jewish priests were more skilled diviners than priests of other religions? Were pagan priests somehow less in touch with the divine than their monotheistic counterparts?

Really this is all a diversion because the central point I was trying to make was that divining was never regarded as intrinsically evil, or else the Jewish Priests and Christ's apostles would never have used it themselves. That's the point.

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Church

Post by Kilmoon Bog »

There are two situations :-

Entering a church holding or carrying dowsing rods. Secondly, dowsing within the church.

In either situation I would consider it right and proper to speak beforehand to the relevant priest, vicar or the like.

What applies to the rods would equally apply, for example, to a metal detector or a jack hammer.

I think the initiator of this thread rather laid himself open to questioning and adverse comment.

On a slightly different angle, I would not be happy to dowse in a church. This is because I consider that dowsing does not follow scientific principles and may be related to forces, powers or the like that may emanate from sources outside of our generally understood domain. These forces, powers or the like may be in conflict with the philosophies, practices and principles of the particular establishment where this hypothetical church is located.
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Post by Helen-Healing »

Welcome, Esgaroth :)

Just an observation....what many of the 'guardians' of our modern churches (ie priests/vicars) seem to forget, is that their place of worship was probably built on an ancient Pagan sacred site in the first place. (In this country anyway.) So the energies that they inherited so readily are of a much older origin than christianity. In fact, they belong to us all.
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Post by Flashgun »

Yes that's true Helen, that's why a lot of old churches have a big yew tree near to them. Christians built their churches close to the yew with the sole intent of bringing Pagans into their religion.

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Post by Kevin »

Flashgun,
I don,t know how many churchs you have visited, but its ever so many as far as i am concerned, here and in other countries especially France.
They are built soley with the intent of manipulating the matrix grid.
They must have been surveyed by dowsers as the available detectable arrangement of the matrix relevant to each and every one of them matchs precisely to every dimension of them.
I have bothered to check, mostly outdoors because they are often shut.
I often encounter the most obnoxious people I ever meet inside some churchs, but generally meet the best of people.
In France I hear whispers of " Le Sorcier"

I often find the remnants of their former so called pagan history, and can take you to churchs where the megaliths are still buried under them.

Please do not loose sight that the Normans were a murderous invading force that took this country, and then applied rule.
The rule was by fear, and the churchs were central.
It is a system that has delivered us to where we are now, but that does not make it right or have any hold over any so called free person.

I consider we are all one, made from one creative force, and none should have control of that in any way.
I am humbled to be a dowser and to be able to glimpse this system, I pity those who convey fear and control.
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Post by Elaine »

Hi Kevin
I agree with you on the 'oneness' of life and the creative force of which we are a part......is it any wonder that we're in trouble when the principle of divide and rule is everywhere.
Could you tell me what you think the matrix grid is.....I've read Bruce Cathies book about harmonics and the world energy grid ....but this might be something quite different.
I approached the local vicar about dowsing in the local church....he wasn't keen at all, however when I went to Dunsford church(mary line) I was really welcomed + dowsing rods - even showed me the old oak bishops seat, green man, serpents and all!
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Post by Paul Collett »

It is quite interesting to date the yew trees by dowsing. I have found quite a few that seem to be pre-christian.
Paul Collett
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