Book Review - Jeff Keen's new book

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Hi Dave,

As a part time healer, I would welcome your take on the following -

"In 1998 Deepak Chopra was awarded the parody Ig Nobel Prize in physics for "his unique interpretation of quantum physics as it applies to life, liberty, and the pursuit of economic happiness."[28]. He received this 'honour' for such writing as:

Quantum healing is healing the bodymind from a quantum level. That means from a level which is not manifest at a sensory level. Our bodies ultimately are fields of information, intelligence and energy. Quantum healing involves a shift in the fields of energy information, so as to bring about a correction in an idea that has gone wrong. So quantum healing involves healing one mode of consciousness, mind, to bring about changes in another mode of consciousness, body."

Geoff


Edited by I.P. 3.11.08 - put Deepak Chopra quote in markup

[Rory]

Just to add a couple of things here. Firstly Ron Pearson's work explains all of D.Chopra's thoughts but also go much beyond that by giving reason for how they came about - it even explains the whereabouts of the spirit world and where the energy comes from in order to create it. The source is the same place that gives rise to the information field that is being talked about, he calls it the Intelligent Ether, or I-ther, and supposits that it exists at a sub quantum scale. Even Nobel prize winning physicists like Brian Josephson have failed to find fault in his logic, his work has even also been peer reviewed and published in Russia ,Canada and India. One can only wonder why he is having so much trouble getting his information out in the UK.

In addition to that, once you have discarded the ridiculous Big Bang theory of creation, which you have to do if you use logic and a sound, non-emotionally constrained decision making strategy, you can then eliminate the need for the age of the Universe to be around 15 Billion years old. Once that age limit has gone, it is entirely possible for alien species to have evolved prior to ours. Ron's theories put the age of the Universe at around 100 billion years old.

Apologies for going off topic, but was just following on from the previous comments.

[quantum]

Hi Geoff,

I am also interested in trying to understand the 'energy healing' process. It was listening to an audio book by Caroline Myss that first aroused my interest. She sees subtle energy flowing through the body via the chakra system with disease related to constrictions or abnormalities of this flow. The healing then consists of removing the abnormalities. I think that the energy flows from the surroundings,through the body and back to the surroundings, thus completing a circuit. Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

This picture of healing connects nicely with the 'information field' idea. The subtle energy being the information field, or closely connected with it. Chopra talks about 'intelligence' within the body which can be controlled by the mind. Indeed, Hameroff also in one of his articles comments on his first observing a cell dividing under the microscope. Every part of the cell seemed to know exactly where to go as though guided by some hidden intelligence.

I think that a consensus view is gradually emerging. The 'information field' seems to be the key to it all. Our problem is to figure out exactly what this information field is. Can it emerge from conventional science or is it something additional to known physics and chemistry. The vacuum of conventional particle physics may be closely involved but I think that we are all waiting for a new Einstein to put it all together. Perhaps Ron Pearson has the answer!

Exciting times!
Dave


Hi Rory

I looked for Ron Pearson's book on the internet but found that it would cost me £130 second hand on Amazon, and it wasn't clear that this version contained all of the theory, including the maths, as I believe it is a trilogy.

Before spending that sort of money I had a look at a summary of the theory posted on the web by Macquisten.The start seems to be a dislike of the 'Big Bang theory'. This theory is not a consequence of General Relativity and indeed Fred Hoyle had a 'steady State theory' which also used Gen Relativity. There is still no accepted theory of quantum gravity at present so that cosmological theory for the origin of the universe must be considered speculative I think.

I actually have it on good authority in another thread (Arthur's Alien Friend), that string theory will lead to the successful unification of Quantum theory and Relativity, and all other approaches will fail!

I'm afraid that the web post description of Pearson's theory did not impress me. It requires particles with negative energy and mass. Surely such particles would have been detected (and a Nobel prize awarded) in high energy collision experiments by now. Comparison is made with Dirac's relativistic theory of the electron. Dirac had negative energy states (all filled with positive mass electrons).....now superseded by relativistic quantum electrodynamics.

The electrons and holes in semiconductors are rather analogous to the Dirac theory with hole energy measured in the negative direction relative to electrons. Electron - hole collisions do not show anything resembling 'energy creation' though. I'm afraid that for me, a negative mass free particle is very counter intuitive....if you push it, it accelerates back at you (Force=mass x acceleration)

Perhaps the web post is over simplified and I misunderstood. If you can lend me a copy of the book or indicate where the complete theory is accessible without excessive cost, I would be happy to take a closer look.

Dave

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Hi Dave,

(D) I am also interested in trying to understand the 'energy healing' process. It was listening to an audio book by Caroline Myss that first aroused my interest. She sees subtle energy flowing through the body via the chakra system with disease related to constrictions or abnormalities of this flow. The healing then consists of removing the abnormalities.

(G) I'm sure you will be aware, Dave, that there are many ways in which healing can be sent to someone. I use a system where I have to dowse a diagnosis by obtaining that information from my 'guide' (that could be seen, possibly, as obtaining answers from an information field). I can also obtain info from someone's sub-conscious mind (I call it the soul memory) - another kind of information
field that can be accessed.

(D) I think that the energy flows from the surroundings,through the body and back to the surroundings, thus completing a circuit. Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

(G) I don't think that is actually right although I cannot be certain. It does noy seem logical that energy should pass through a body rather than stop where it is needed. It would, I think,pass through the sender. In my case, I access the necessary available Universal energies and, using Intent, send them to the various parts of a body that need attention. The effect is to stimulate the natural healing abilities of the body so that normality is achieved much more quickly.

(D) This picture of healing connects nicely with the 'information field' idea.

(G) Agreed

(D) The subtle energy being the information field, or closely connected with it.

(G) Again, I don't think that's correct (my opinion) it may be because I'm not at all sure what your definition of 'subtle energy' is.

(D) Chopra talks about 'intelligence' within the body which can be controlled by the mind. Indeed, Hameroff also in one of his articles comments on his first observing a cell dividing under the microscope. Every part of the cell seemed to know exactly where to go as though guided by some hidden intelligence.

(G) I would have no problem in believing that to be correct.

(D) I think that a consensus view is gradually emerging. The 'information field' seems to be the key to it all. Our problem is to figure out exactly what this information field is.

(G) Yes. I think that there are several information fields that can be accessed using various techniques.
The most interesting one, for me, being that of the memory. I have managed to access both the past and future lives of some people during regression and progression sessions so the 'soul memory' contains a great deal of accessible information. Sometimes, some of us need 'guides' to help obtain and pass on that info.

(D) Can it emerge from conventional science or is it something additional to known physics and chemistry. The vacuum of conventional particle physics may be closely involved but I think that we are all waiting for a new Einstein to put it all together. Perhaps Ron Pearson has the answer!

(G) As to the scientific aspect, Dave, I think the answers lie in metaphysics rather than physics.

Geoff

[quantum]

Thanks for that Geoff, input from a practising healer is really useful.

Let me try and clarify my view point a little.

Reading books on the subject I find that different authors can use words in different ways which can be confusing. I would emphasise here that I am going through a learning process and am in no sense an expert on subtle energy.

By 'subtle energy' I mean any energy or information flow which cannot be detected directly with standard scientific instruments. It generally has to be detected by interaction with the mind through dowsing or meditation and excludes the standard forces studied by physics.

Some people distinguish consciousness and mind. I like to think of consciousness as different states of mind. Conscious mind, subconscious mind and unconscious mind.

I think that dowsers like Jeff Keen and healers employing various healing therapies can provide the insights and intuition needed for formulating a sensible predictive theory. In a way they are like experimenters in a science laboratory, probing these subtle energies to gain insight and understanding (as well as helping the patient!)

Following Deepak Chopra, Bruce Forciea and others of a philosophical/theoretical bent, I have a picture of the body where each cell somehow experiences an information flow providing the intelligence required for the cell to divide and grow, move to areas where healing is required etc. Some people like Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose argue that each cell may be a quantum computer and microtubules or other structures are constantly processing data to achieve this intelligence. I don't really buy that, though it may be so. All cells in the body are replaced continually, but memory of the local intelligence is retained. Aches pains tumours etc can correspond to a local disruption of this intelligence.

Medical intuitives like Carolyne Mysse see the subtle energies flowing through a healthy body like a circuit connecting with the rest of the universe. I envision this as information flowing and providing the necessary intelligence for cells to function. Loss of local intelligence (as in cancer say) corresponds with an abnormality in the flow. Healers, or indeed the person affected, can then in some cases correct these abnormalities by directing a concentrated information flow from themselves to the affected area. As you say there are a number of methods of healing but I like to think that they are using different tools to make the same corrections. I am inclined to think that the mind somehow filters the required information from a much vaster torrent which includes all of the various information fields.

Forciea in his book 'Unlocking the healing code', which I recommend, talks of four informational healing channels. His picture fits in with the above I think. He considers a hierarchy of information:

"Consciousness is the highest order and connects the mind to the zero-point field".
To relate this to my view I would say that his 'consciousness' may be a hybridisation of mind with the vacuum of zero-point fluctuations and extends out beyond the physical body, overlapping with your ideas I think.

"Mind is the next order, and provides the link between consciousness and body"
In my view this corresponds to the mind filtering the information torrent.

"Matter and energy are the lowest levels of information which also communicate with the body"
I agree with this. Electromagnetic fields can heal as can conventional medicine.

Afraid I can't agree with you that metaphysics holds the answer. How would one ever know if it was right?

These subtle energies can be detected so must be susceptible to theoretical treatment. I think Jeff Keen would probably agree with that. I think the answer lies in Quantum theory. We are dealing here with a huge many body problem. Conventional approaches to many-body physics concentrate on calculating the averaged properties of single particles (quasi-particle propagators) or two coupled particles (density fluctuation propagators). All this is too crude for the present problem. Somehow we have to describe the complete many body system where all particles are quantum mechanically entangled. Exact solution is out of the question so the challenge is to find new concepts and approximations to model this.

I think I need to ask Arthur's Alien friend for guidance in this!

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Hi Dave,

(D) Let me try and clarify my view point a little. By 'subtle energy' I mean any energy or information flow which cannot be detected directly with standard scientific instruments. It generally has to be detected by interaction with the mind through dowsing or meditation and excludes the standard forces studied by physics.

(G) Many thanks. That helps a great deal.

(D) Some people distinguish consciousness and mind. I like to think of consciousness as different states of mind. Conscious mind, subconscious mind and unconscious mind.

(G) Agreed

(D) I think that dowsers like Jeff Keen and healers employing various healing therapies can provide the insights and intuition needed for formulating a sensible predictive theory. In a way they are like experimenters in a science laboratory, probing these subtle energies to gain insight and understanding (as well as helping the patient!)

(G) IMO it is one thing to recognise that 'subtle energies' exist (which,I think, would have been impossibe for the scientific community to acknowledge that say 50 years ago) but it's going to be far more difficult to determine how and why they work by studying them from a scientific point of vie.

(D) Following Deepak Chopra, Bruce Forciea and others of a philosophical/theoretical bent, I have a picture of the body where each cell somehow experiences an information flow providing the intelligence required for the cell to divide and grow....... (G) OK

(D) move to areas where healing is required etc.

(G) Whoa ! (Dowsing)... the only cells that move about are what are know as 'non-active cancer cells' (modern medicine refers to them as 'Stem Cells'). These are specifically used to replace most missing bits bit NOT body organs.

(D) Some people like Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose argue that each cell may be a quantum computer and microtubules or other structures are constantly processing data to achieve this intelligence. I don't really buy that, though it may be so.

(G) My dowwsing certainly doesn't buy it either.

(D) All cells in the body are replaced continually, but memory of the local intelligence is retained.

(G) As I understand it, all body cells retain the memory of all the cells in the body.

(D) Aches pains tumours etc can correspond to a local disruption of this intelligence.

(G) Yes.

(D) Medical intuitives like Carolyne Mysse see the subtle energies flowing through a healthy body like a circuit connecting with the rest of the universe. I envision this as information flowing and providing the necessary intelligence for cells to function. Loss of local intelligence (as in cancer say) corresponds with an abnormality in the flow. Healers, or indeed the person affected, can then in some cases correct these abnormalities by directing a concentrated information flow from themselves........

(G) Not actually FROM themselves, Dave, rather THROUGH themselves. If you use your own energy to heal you will quickly become exhausted.

(D) ....to the affected area. As you say there are a number of methods of healing but I like to think that they are using different tools to make the same corrections. I am inclined to think that the mind somehow filters the required information from a much vaster torrent which includes all of the various information fields.

(G) That's more like it, IMO.

(D) Forciea in his book 'Unlocking the healing code', which I recommend, talks of four informational healing channels. His picture fits in with the above I think. He considers a hierarchy of information:

"Consciousness is the highest order and connects the mind to the zero-point field".
To relate this to my view I would say that his 'consciousness' may be a hybridisation of mind with the vacuum of zero-point fluctuations and extends out beyond the physical body, overlapping with your ideas I think.

(G) Again, agreed.

(D) "Mind is the next order, and provides the link between consciousness and body"
In my view this corresponds to the mind filtering the information torrent.

(G) I don't think th mind so much as filters the information torrent rather, generally, in the field of healing, it tries to obtain a diagnosis so it can pass on the necessary energies to specific places using whatever technique works for the healer . Alternatively the mind can send holistic healing to a person.

(D) "Matter and energy are the lowest levels of information which also communicate with the body"
I agree with this. Electromagnetic fields can heal as can conventional medicine.

(G) Yes

(D) Afraid I can't agree with you that metaphysics holds the answer. How would one ever know if it was right?

(G) Why do you want to know if it is 'right' ? Surely if it works OK that is sufficient ?

(D) These subtle energies can be detected so must be susceptible to theoretical treatment. (G) Yes
(D) I think Jeff Keen would probably agree with that. I think the answer lies in Quantum theory.
(G) No. Not entirely.
(D) `We are dealing here with a huge many body problem. Conventional approaches to many-body physics concentrate on calculating the averaged properties of single particles (quasi-particle propagators) or two coupled particles (density fluctuation propagators). All this is too crude for the present problem.

(G) Maybe so but you have left me miles behind !

(D) Somehow we have to describe the complete many body system where all particles are quantum mechanically entangled.

(G) You can try that approach, Dave, but I doubt that you will get anywhere with it.

(D) Exact solution is out of the question so the challenge is to find new concepts and approximations to model this.

(G) Which is exactly why I suggested that the answers lie in the metaphysical fields rather than the physical ones, but it is essential that one does not start off with any preconceptions or theories if one is to tread the metaphysical path.

(D) I think I need to ask Arthur's Alien friend for guidance in this!

(G) OK

Geoff

[quantum]

Thanks Geoff!

A couple of points of clarity:

G) Whoa ! (Dowsing)... the only cells that move about are what are know as 'non-active cancer cells' (modern medicine refers to them as 'Stem Cells'). These are specifically used to replace most missing bits bit NOT body organs

I was actually thinking of blood cells swarming to the site of an injury and causing blood to clot and new skin to grow.

G) As I understand it, all body cells retain the memory of all the cells in the body.

I think that is the 'intelligence' from the information fields...just semantics though.

(G) Not actually FROM themselves, Dave, rather THROUGH themselves. If you use your own energy to heal you will quickly become exhausted.

OK. I was thinking that the energy required to heal comes from the patients body with the healer effectively correcting the 'blueprint'. When you ar healing, do you leave yourself open to possible degradation of your own blueprint, at least temporarily?

(G) Why do you want to know if it is 'right' ? Surely if it works OK that is sufficient ?

In science when some new phenomenon appears people often come up with many theories, all of which fit the known facts (recent example would be High temperature super conductors). One huge advantage of scientific method comes through prediction of new phenomenon which can be tested through observation and measurement. It seems to me that the metaphysical way is a dead end. A good scientific theory would improve understanding in ways that could open up new avenues of enquiry, with the possibility of new applications. Possibly machines that could perform the work done by healers and dowsers or ways of exploiting the vacuum which at present is a huge untapped energy resource.

OK, I don't think we are going to agree on this!

Fascinating discussion Geoff.

[Geoff Stuttaford]

(D) A couple of points of clarity:

(G) Whoa ! (Dowsing)... the only cells that move about are what are know as 'non-active cancer cells' (modern medicine refers to them as 'Stem Cells'). These are specifically used to replace most missing bits bit NOT body organs

(D) I was actually thinking of blood cells swarming to the site of an injury and causing blood to clot and new skin to grow.

(G) Oh. Them. Agreed, then.

(G) Not actually FROM themselves, Dave, rather THROUGH themselves. If you use your own energy to heal you will quickly become exhausted.

(D) OK. I was thinking that the energy required to heal comes from the patients body with the healer effectively correcting the 'blueprint'.

(G) The energy in the patient's body can get blocked for a number of reason I won't go into now, but I think the general belief is that energy is sent to enhance what is there and to reduce what would be the normal healing time. I think that correcting the blueprint is quite a good analogy. Other healers may have different beliefs on how healing works.

(D) When you are healing, do you leave yourself open to possible degradation of your own blueprint, at least temporarily?

(G) No way, Jose ! I have very considerable protection against that sort of thing.

(G) Why do you want to know if it is 'right' ? Surely if it works OK that is sufficient ?

(D) In science when some new phenomenon appears people often come up with many theories, all of which fit the known facts (recent example would be High temperature super conductors). One huge advantage of scientific method comes through prediction of new phenomenon which can be tested through observation and measurement.

(G) That is what I call scientism (no offence intended) I think it works It works very well with subjects
that could be considered to be in scientific fields, but not in those concerning metaphysics (My take)

(D) It seems to me that the metaphysical way is a dead end.

(G) ARRRRRGGGGHHHH !!!!! Sacrilege !

(D) A good scientific theory would improve understanding in ways that could open up new avenues of enquiry, with the possibility of new applications. Possibly machines that could perform the work done by healers and dowsers or ways of exploiting the vacuum which at present is a huge untapped energy resource.

(G) Great Idea, Dave. I'm all for it. Sounds like the holographic person who is the medical practitioner in the Star Trek Voyager series.

(D) OK, I don't think we are going to agree on this!

(G) Are you kiddin ?

(D) Fascinating discussion Geoff.

(G) True

Geoff

[Ian Pegler]

Jeff Keen now has his own website:

http://jeffreykeen.co.uk/

Ian

[arthur hamlin]

Hello Dave,
I`ve just read the interesting discussion with you and Geoff and find that I agree with a lot of what is being said even though Geoff is contacting intelligencies from another dimension.
It would be interesting to hear what these intelligencies are like.
Just wondering how your dowsing is getting on and what stage your at regarding pendulum activity?
Are you wishing to get deviceless?
I would be pleased to try and obtain answers to any question you care to pose.
I believe it best to reach out for a different source that is familiar with each subject being discussed.
Cheers,
Arthur

[Ian Pegler]

Jeff's latest paper:

How Dowsing Works

Ian

[ledgehammer]

Fascinating thread, thanks Ian for adding recently otherwise would have missed it!

Thanks to a fellow member of the forum I have heard some great ideas regarding torsian fields, and was very refreshing to read about Jeff Keens book , and have ordered it!! I was shown how to dowse trees, and dowse the edge of their fields along with humans who seem to have varying fields in terms of distance, this could be partly down to health or state of information fields. It was also theorised that cancer is cells that have become isolated to this information field, alas they have forgotten and this could explain degredation in some illness, I will add that this was theorised and no research has been performed other than observation, but quite striking observations.
I will explain a little more having not read the book not sure if im regoing over something, but it has been observed trees are slightly different to ourselves in terms of fields, we and trees both have a centre point, above which our information fields spin one way and below this point the alternative direction, the center point of trees is at ground level, with humans the centre point is either at the base of the spine or the navel (im not exactly sure).
At a stone circle (have only performed research on the one stone circle so far) Two points were observed, one impoding and one outploding, with many lines of energy conversing at these points, 34 were counted at the observed point, and previously 55 were observed by a friend at the other point, these numbers point to fibonacci, but more tests need to be carried out. One has been described as being female and the other male.

Just to add a couple of things here. Firstly Ron Pearson's work explains all of D.Chopra's thoughts but also go much beyond that by giving reason for how they came about - it even explains the whereabouts of the spirit world and where the energy comes from in order to create it. The source is the same place that gives rise to the information field that is being talked about, he calls it the Intelligent Ether, or I-ther, and supposits that it exists at a sub quantum scale. Even Nobel prize winning physicists like Brian Josephson have failed to find fault in his logic, his work has even also been peer reviewed and published in Russia ,Canada and India. One can only wonder why he is having so much trouble getting his information out in the UK.

In addition to that, once you have discarded the ridiculous Big Bang theory of creation, which you have to do if you use logic and a sound, non-emotionally constrained decision making strategy, you can then eliminate the need for the age of the Universe to be around 15 Billion years old. Once that age limit has gone, it is entirely possible for alien species to have evolved prior to ours. Ron's theories put the age of the Universe at around 100 billion years old.

Apologies for going off topic, but was just following on from the previous comments.

I would agree with Rory, The "big breed" theory makes a lot of sense, and is definatly worth a read...

Regards

Tom

[Rory]

Hi Geoff,

I looked for Ron Pearson's book on the internet but found that it would cost me £130 second hand on Amazon, and it wasn't clear that this version contained all of the theory, including the maths, as I believe it is a trilogy.

Before spending that sort of money I had a look at a summary of the theory posted on the web by Macquisten.The start seems to be a dislike of the 'Big Bang theory'. This theory is not a consequence of General Relativity and indeed Fred Hoyle had a 'steady State theory' which also used Gen Relativity. There is still no accepted theory of quantum gravity at present so that cosmological theory for the origin of the universe must be considered speculative I think.

I actually have it on good authority in another thread (Arthur's Alien Friend), that string theory will lead to the successful unification of Quantum theory and Relativity, and all other approaches will fail!

I'm afraid that the web post description of Pearson's theory did not impress me. It requires particles with negative energy and mass. Surely such particles would have been detected (and a Nobel prize awarded) in high energy collision experiments by now. Comparison is made with Dirac's relativistic theory of the electron. Dirac had negative energy states (all filled with positive mass electrons).....now superseded by relativistic quantum electrodynamics.

The electrons and holes in semiconductors are rather analogous to the Dirac theory with hole energy measured in the negative direction relative to electrons. Electron - hole collisions do not show anything resembling 'energy creation' though. I'm afraid that for me, a negative mass free particle is very counter intuitive....if you push it, it accelerates back at you (Force=mass x acceleration)

Perhaps the web post is over simplified and I misunderstood. If you can lend me a copy of the book or indicate where the complete theory is accessible without excessive cost, I would be happy to take a closer look.

Dave

Hi Quantum
Just to give you some added information on Ron Pearson's work. Have a look at http://www.pearsonianspace.com Here you will find access to all Ron's book without £130 price tags and all at very reasonable prices. Also his book Quantum Gravity which shows complete unity along with Maths. Now that neutrinos have been shown to be faster than the speed of light and Prof Cahil, Physics professor of Flinders University Australia, has also had papers published on his experiments in space that show there must be a speed of the earth through a background media, I think we can all see the end for Relativity. I even understand the Russians are now looking to investigate Tesla's work again and watch out for an announcement from CERN next spring. Their Large Hadron Collider research has come up with nothing.
The Big Bang theory was not disliked by Ron. He even said it could still occur in a controlled way once matter had been created after the Big Breed had reached a certain point. String theory has of yet actually achieved very little and will likely be dismissed as unnecessary just like Relativity will be. Pearsons theory does not require particles of negative energy and mass. He uses the terms primaries that are opposite and complementary and have nothing to do with charge. This all occurs at the sub quantum level so no collisions at this level could be observed with a particle accelerator. His work does really warrant close examination and he does solve so many other dilemma's like the Dark energy mystery.