Hartmann & Curry grids disappearing?

Hartmann, Curry, Benker... <yourgridhere>. Discussions about the Earth's energy matrices.
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Grahame
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Hartmann & Curry grids disappearing?

Post by Grahame »

I've just finished reading Alan Hall's book "Water, Electricity and Health" (Hawthorn Press 1997 - available from the BSD). He makes a rather surprising and sweeping statement on page 149, referring to the global Hartmann & Curry earth grids:
"But in 1993/4 this lattice system went through a radical transformation. At Easter 1993, the Curry Lattice disappeared from the surface, leaving only the Hartmann Lattice. The following year, between May and September the Hartmann Lattice broke up and became fragmented, no longer forming a continuous system. Then the Curry Lattice returned in June to rejoin the fragmenting Hartmann Lattice. The result of this transformation is that since September 1994 only the crossing points of the Lattice remain, as a mass of small, quite distinct entities.
These now consist of a seies of five, short, narrow planes intersecting each other vertically, which still carry vibrations that can affect water. These forms also all carry an anti-clockwise vortex at their centre. The forms exist at ground level, and at various levels up to about tree-top height. Before the changes occurred, the vibrations from the lattices used to extend vertically above the ground to a great height. This is now no longer the case and they are now only a local phenomenon."
There is no justification for this bold statement, and he never explains what he thought was the cause of the phenomenon. It's not something I've heard of before, but then I wasn't dowsing earth energies back then. I can certainly still dowse both Hartmann and Curry grids - last weekend I was working with the first seven of Schnek's earth grids and could dowse them all successfully. So from my experience, it must have been a temporary event if it happened at all (bearing in mind that the book was written in 1997).
Has anyone else observed the disappearance of the grids, or have any idea what might have caused this to happen? I'm wondering (if it actually happened) if it might have been caused by something like the peak of the sunspot cycle or some other astronomical event?
Does anyone have any knowledge of other instances when this has happened? If there is some sort of cyclical nature to the Harmann & Curry grids it would be nice to know more about it.
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Post by Romaine »

All types of energylines have a cyclical nature caused by the moon, sun, planets, and... . These influencing things cause that energylines are different in strength over the years, months, weeks, days, hours, and so on.

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Post by Grahame »

I agree that all energy leys have a cyclical nature linked to the planetary movements, and that they will sometimes shrink practically to nothing; but I haven't heard of any planetary grids disappearing completely , and for a long period of time as Hall seems to suggest in the book.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it - Terry Pratchett.
msteurbaut

Post by msteurbaut »

Grahame Gardner wrote:I agree that all energy leys have a cyclical nature linked to the planetary movements
Is there an observed pattern in those strenght movements, or is it just a
statement?
I read the statement everywhere, but so far nobody has made an attempt to 'map' it with statistics...

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Post by Grahame »

There is certainly a dowsable variation in energy leys and earth grids linked to planetary movements. Members of the EEG and the Dowsing Research Group have done a fair bit of research in this area, in particular Billy Gawn, Bob Sephton and Jim Lyons. Major leys are found to shrink almost to nothing at times of full and new moons, when the earth-moon-sun system are in alignment. Opposite effects happen at the equinoxes and solstices, and are again these are related to the vector mechanics of the earth-sun system. See for example this article by Jim Lyons
and also this article by Billy Gawn.

We still don't have that much data however, and much more research needs to be done in this area. If you are interested in doing some work in this area yourself, Jim Lyons is always looking for people to contribute research data, and can advise on a structured experimental programme. PM me if you would like to get in touch with Jim.
Last edited by Grahame on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Fixed links to EEG articles
Grahame
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it - Terry Pratchett.
Dan Wilson

Grids

Post by Dan Wilson »

We are evidently getting into a dowsers' category mistake here, like discussing a magnetic field as though it were an effect produced by a magic spell. I hate to stuff alternative realities up anyone's nose, but I've never found that dowsers' "energies" and "grids" made any sense at all unless they were treated as a poetic way of referring to thoughtforms, whether created recently as a discrete wish or a gradual concatenation over thousands of years of an instinctual tradition.

The classical "cancer line" in geopathic stress work answers far better to the description "plot by the viewer of maximal stress for persons suffering radiation intolerance or inherited ancestral fear of burning " since then it explains without further effort why such alignments link the site both to electricity pylons and sites of past human sacrifice - and also why GS sufferers tend to attract consistent alignments when they move house and why at the same time GS appears to be place-linked rather than person-linked - in most places there won't be mentally-entrapping alignments (so, classical example, gypsies don't get cancer).

Thoughtforms can be fabulously various and different so rules pertaining to one won't for the next. We never heard about Curry grids until German dowsers came here and indicated we were defective for not having them, and even now most British dowsers don't detect them unless they use a formulation such as "if I were German, where would the grid be here ?" A clue is that German emigrants to the United States fairly rapidly lose their grids and have to use a similar idea to find them again. I say German, but a dowsed survey will show that Curry grids are natural to German Switzerland, Austria, Ulster and some areas of Holland and Poland. Q&A, for me at least, indicates that the Curry grid is a plot by the viewer of areas of minor tension for grid-holders on account of their having had an upbringing wherein everyone was expected to have some firm religious belief (not any particular one) - i.e. vagueness on the subject, normal in the UK and USA so the grid isn't generated by natives, is unconsciously unsettling. Why there should be square areas of non-threat for such people remains for me a total mystery and I am sufficient of a philosophical sceptic to doubt that semantics will be equal to explaining it.
It could be that the above explanation is itself badly defective.

The Hartmann grid has a similar though not identical distribution and answers well to the description "plot by viewer of areas of minor tension for grid-holders thanks to indoctrination persuading them that unstable people are possessed by evil spirits/adverse entities/minor devils". I'm trying to keep the language neutral and general here: the essential characteristic is belief in some discrete foreign entity occupying people, rather than their disturbance being, in modern parlance, thanks to mental illness or a "software glitch". Why would this generate rectangular areas of peace ? Here again my explanation runs out of steam, and again might be an ill-advised start at trying to understand the situation.

Gunther Scheck's "public house grid", discovered in Devon - apparently he had a very pleasant and lengthy time researching it - brings up another thoughtform description: "plot by viewer of areas of maximal pleasure at thought of consuming beer". How did such a thoughtform succeed in inducing people to build pubs along it, though ? We have a lot of work to do.
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Post by Richard L. Farr »

While there may be a great deal of validity to points made by Mr. Wilson, I simply cannot agree with his skeptical opinion about the "objective" existence of varieties of "lines of force" on, above and under the earth. The earlier work of non-dowsers like Georges Lakhovsky, and of a large number of (apparently) level-headed French radiesthetists (like Enel and Turenne), when added to the more speculative (??) researches of T.C. Lethbridge and a large number of mid-to-late 20th century British, French and German (and Russian) radiesthetic investigators, seems to me to add up to something which cannot be dismissed as simply being a complete misunderstanding of what is essentially purely subjective and idiosyncratic phenomena. Certainly this conclusion-which seems to be what Mr. Wilson's point of view in this matter boils down to-COULD be "true", but, to me, it doesn't seem likely that it is.
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Post by Grahame »

I hate to stuff alternative realities up anyone's nose, but I've never found that dowsers' "energies" and "grids" made any sense at all unless they were treated as a poetic way of referring to thoughtforms
Very interesting metaphysical can of worms you're opening here, Dan! I agree that it is strange the way dowsers find energies manifesting in grid formations - for example I've always had trouble with the way Billy Gawn finds square energy grids around everything (see here). This just seems counter-intuitive to me, as a spherical energy field would appear to make much more "sense".
So what is to say that any dowsing reaction is genuine, and not just a manifested thought-form? Is there any way we can tell the difference? And, more importantly, does it matter? Does it matter whether we call something a "plot by the viewer of maximal stress for persons suffering radiation intolerance or inherited ancestral fear of burning" or a "cancer line"? (And as an aside, why do you find a connection between an ancestral fear of fire and cancer?)
I put it to you that it does not matter a jot if these phenomena are real or thoughtforms. Since we each perceive the universe through the filter of our physical senses combined with our cultural conditioning, we all see things slightly differently. If something manifests in your perception as having a grid form, then that is how your conscious mind is processing the information into some format that you can understand. As long as you can work with that perception, it really doesn't matter if it holds objective reality or not. It's whether it works for you that is important.
I don't usually work with earth grids, but I can find them if I want to. Before a couple of weekends ago, I had never dowsed more than the Hartmann and Curry grids, and yet then I dowsed (and felt physical reactions from), a further five earth grids that I previously hadn't even known about. Now am I inventing these grids and reactions out of nothing based on what I'd been told about them, or was I picking up the thoughtforms of the person who was telling me about them, or do they in fact have an objective reality?
If you extrapolate this argument to its logical limit, you have to start asking if anything is objectively real. And the only answer I can offer to that is the famous Zen koan: "who is the Master who makes the grass green?"
But my head is starting to hurt now, so I think I'll just go and have a little lie down..... :wink:
Last edited by Grahame on Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Grahame
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it - Terry Pratchett.
Dan Wilson

Grids

Post by Dan Wilson »

Richard L. Farr wrote:While there may be a great deal of validity to points made by Mr. Wilson, I simply cannot agree with his skeptical opinion about the "objective" existence of varieties of "lines of force" on, above and under the earth.
Sorry, but I don't have an "objective". We never know for certain that we are not misinterpeting something.

However, allowing that a consensus view of affairs (what Theosophists, I understand, term "consensus trance", a great joke, I love it) may be erected like a party game as a temporary agreed "existence", thoughtforms are as much real in terms of that existence as anything solid. They cause religious wars ! - they can't not exist.

Even so, outside the party game, the very idea of thoughtforms depends on the way apparent reality is sliced up. Do intense men with paint brushes in the suburbs of Belfast daubing slogans on gable ends suffer from an infection of specialist thoughtforms, or are they merely motivated perhaps by a personal loss in The Troubles ? You can have it - and your story on reality - either way. Or many others, of course.

Along with GS work I do hauntings and poltergeist clearance. Highly dramatic things happen to people which involve thoughtforms, some centuries old. They, or something, are there all right - we just can't ever claim to view them or know the whole of them accurately. Expanding from that, nor do we have any guarantee that "thoughtforms" is an optimal way of addressing the situation.

That's the basis of philosophical scepticism, which applies to everything.
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Post by Guest »

Grahame Gardner wrote:There is certainly a dowseable variation in energy leys and earth grids linked to planetary movements.
Thanks for the tips Grahame, Marc
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Hartmann & Curry Lines

Post by Geoff Stuttaford »

I have dowsed that Hartmann and Curry Lines exist only in the mind of someone who believes they exist and only then as a thought form they impose on a location that they can subsequently find by dowsing.

Whether this is correct or not I have no idea, but perhaps someone else could confirm or deny it by dowsing, rather than by stating his or her beliefs.

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Post by Romaine »

Geoff: But I do not think and do not dowse that as true.

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Post by Richard L. Farr »

Thought-forms exist, they are oftentimes potent subtle energy concentrations and they can have important affects upon health, possible paranormal effects upon plant and animal life, and also upon electromagnetic phenomena in certain instances and under certain circumstances; thought-forms can also be mistaken for other things. However, the existence of thought-forms does not in any way mean that lines and grids and vortices of subtle energy are not real, any more than their existence means that electromagnetic forces are not real or that heat or gravity are not real. We existence as multidimensional microcosms as part of a multidimensional macrocosm, and "either/or" type of thinking really doesn't allow us to get very far in extending our insights.
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Re: Hartmann & Curry Lines

Post by Olivier »

Geoff Stuttaford wrote:I have dowsed that Hartmann and Curry Lines exist only in the mind of someone who believes they exist and only then as a thought form they impose on a location that they can subsequently find by dowsing.

Whether this is correct or not I have no idea, but perhaps someone else could confirm or deny it by dowsing, rather than by stating his or her beliefs.

Geoff
You have probably realised - maybe not - that cats very frequently lie down over waterveins and Hartmann's crossings.
And I am pretty sure that cats do not believe in the existence of such lines.

Moreover, here, I am only talking about my cats. A lot of experiences have been made with mices - highlighting their sensibility to H crossings.

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Post by Geoff Stuttaford »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ro,

You wrote :

"But I do not think and do not dowse that as true."

in response to my dowsing that Hartmann and Curry line exist only as thought forms.

No doubt you area aware that it is possible for a dowser to create a thought form at a specific location and for that thought form to be found by another reasonably competent dowser...for instance, if I mentally created a thought form of a wall, some 40 cms thick just "over there", you would be able to pick up that wall and its precise thickness with L-rods and, if I then mentally removed that thought form , you would not find it.

I am just wondering whether Messrs Hartmann and Curry arrived at their conclusion about the existence of grid lines as an expression of
their beliefs rather than what they had dowsed. Was there a possibility that they had discovered a plethora of parallel GS or other negative energy lines that formed a grid at one location and then put forward a theory that this 'grid' was planet wide ?

When I ask ' Do Hartmann and Curry Grid Lines actually exist naturally on this planet' I still get a 'NO' response.

If I ask 'Can Hartmann and Curry Grid Lines be made to exist mentally on his planet' I get a 'YES'

I do agree with you, Olivier, that cats love negative energies.

and Richard wrote (snipped)

"However, the existence of thought-forms does not in any way mean that lines and grids and vortices of subtle energy are not real, any more than their existence means that electromagnetic forces are not real or that heat or gravity are not real."

Agreed, Richard. What I am querying is why I'm getting a 'NO' response when I ask whether H & G grids actually exist naturally on this planet, and a 'YES' in answer to 'can they be made to exist mentally'.

Another questipn arises here - when dowsers pick up what they believe to be H&G grid lines, are they picking up someone's thought form ?

Geoff [/b]
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