Hartmann & Curry grids disappearing?

[Dan Wilson]

You have probably realised - maybe not - that cats very frequently lie down over waterveins and Hartmann's crossings.
And I am pretty sure that cats do not believe in the existence of such lines.

Ah, but how many dowsers (now we have got into this complex discussion) ask the question, is the shape the cat detects as good to lie down in the same shape as a Hartmann grid as we understand it, if it is the same shape is it something else that happens to coincide with Hartmann patterns but is different in some way; or if it is not the same shape but merely similar, is there any relationship at all to Hartmann patterns ?

For these questions to make sense, we have to agree that "Hartmann pattern" involves the unknown phenomenon that normally causes dowsers to get a "yes" when they ask if this grid is a Hartmann grid - i.e. not something else that coincidentally creates the same dowsable "energy shape".

Supposing for the moment that yes, cats do lie down in Hartmann patterns by interacting with the same unknown phenomenon that dowsers agree creates Hartmann patterns (and I get a "yes" for that proposition), they are unlikely to have a conscious belief in such a thing and likely to be acting according to instinct, or unconscious prompting. A human being is operating in this mode when "irrationally" rejecting food which is in fact unsuitable for them. A belief in the food being unsuitable isn't required. However, cats may be doing it for the benefit of some side-effect of the original cause, such as the unconscious reactions of people exposed to it. In animal healing, I find animals commonly become ill because of their owners being stressed.

The more we discuss it, the more options pop up !

[Romaine]

I have met some thoughtforms, but the reaction I got with them is so not fixed, while the hartmannlines are fixed. I even see these hartmann or curry lines with my eyes streaming in the landscape.
The hartmannlines and currylines are present everywhere, and not just in my mind.

Romaine

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Do you think, gentleman, that we could possibly leave the association of cats and negative energy alone for the moment, and return to the question of whether H&C Lines exist or not.

Romaine wrote:

"I have met some thoughtforms, but the reaction I got with them is so not fixed, while the hartmannlines are fixed. I even see these hartmann or curry lines with my eyes streaming in the landscape.
The hartmannlines and currylines are present everywhere, and not just in my mind."

OK Ro. I accept your statement that you see energy lines, but I am wondering just what you are indeed seeing.

Perhaps you could tell me how H&C Lines differ from negative, positive, ley, water, Michael and Mary lines and their equivalents, energy lines in stone circles and others caused by geological faults ?

Also tell me why I can pick up all those lines without any problems as well as all kinds of remanance, yet I cannot locate any H&C Lines. Is it because I have dowsed that they don't exist, or does it lie outside my capabilities ? The fact that I cannot find any leads me to query their existence. Is it possibly a question of definition ?

Geoff

[Romaine]

Hello Geoff,

What I see deponds on what i am focussing on. There are too much energies present at the same time, that focus is needed. The energy is roughly the same in overview, but if you feel several energylines you will feel the difference, if you see the 'particles' that are in the energylines they are also different. I do know leylines, hartmannlines, currylines, benkerlines, pyrelines, and so on, also waterveins, but no Michael and Marialines. Geological faults yes I know them too. Also heard of magic circles, spirals/vortexes, magic squares, see them too.
In the lines, the energyparticles are moving, like a 3-dimensional highway.

Years ago I went to a forrest dowsing with my mother. She doesn't do it much and we tried to find some energylines. See dowsed with a rod and I checked her with a rod. She could find several energylines, but one type of energylines she wasn't able to find. It seemed she wasn't ready to find them. Outside capability.
It is possible that you not finding the H&C-lines is due being outside your capability. Perhaps you can ask your dowsing-tool may I find H&C-lines? Or may I know about them?

But perhaps it is another reason...?

Friendly greetings,
Romaine

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Hi Ro,

You wrote:

"It is possible that you not finding the H&C-lines is due being outside your capability. Perhaps you can ask your dowsing-tool may I find H&C-lines? Or may I know about them? "

It is entirely possible that my dowsing abilities do not include the finding of H&C Lines. Perhaps, Ro, you could ask whether that is true or not.

When I ask about your ability to do so, I get a very ambiguous answer
that is somewhat difficult to interpret, being a swing between 'yes' and 'no'
directions. I get the same response when I ask whether you believe they exist ! There is more in this than meets the pendulum, I feel.

I wonder if anyone else in this Forum has found any limitations on his or her ability to dowse, or mentally find, basic energy lines, or am I the only one.

Geoff

[Richard L. Farr]

Yes-for example, I seem to easily find earth energy POINTS (spots, "pools", etc) but have had difficulty in picking up or tracing LINES, while my wife can detect both. My main area is health radiesthesia, and this is very easy for me, as also is information divining via Q&A pendulum techniques; however, I am only so-so at directional dowsing and at finding lost/missplaced objects. I believe that, like other talents, each of us will likely have limitations in certain areas of dowsing as well as strengths in other areas.

[Dan Wilson]

It is entirely possible that my dowsing abilities do not include the finding of H&C Lines. Perhaps, Ro, you could ask whether that is true or not.

When I ask about your ability to do so, I get a very ambiguous answer
that is somewhat difficult to interpret, being a swing between 'yes' and 'no'
directions. I get the same response when I ask whether you believe they exist ! There is more in this than meets the pendulum, I feel.

I wonder if anyone else in this Forum has found any limitations on his or her ability to dowse, or mentally find, basic energy lines, or am I the only one.

I would like to say that Geoff's apparent inability to find H&C lines does not necessarily reflect adversely on his capacity as a dowser. He might be very fortunate in being to reject dowsable phenomena which are of absolutely no use to him ! After all, English-speakers generally did not pick them up until prompted by the Germans in the 1980s and even now (unless weak of mind) we don't find their crossing points "adverse" or a problem to be considered seriously, so detecting them is a fairly academic affair for us.

However, this doesn't address what the reason might be. I can't do map dowsing location by east-west, north-south coordinates accurately if indoors and after exhaustive dowsing know that this is thanks to an inherited fear of possible attackers hidden behind walls. If I sit in my car with a view all round there is no problem (and, for some reason, angular co-ordinate location always works regardless of situation). Is an unconscious inhibition of this sort active in Geoff's case ?

I get a "no" for this. Very well, is the reason easily understood ? Again a "no". Very well, so I will go into guided writing "words in the head" mode. What does the internal teleprinter say ?

Essentially this is a prohibition within Geoff of being encumbered
with insufficiently accurately defined concepts. A useful interpretation of the "grids" phenomenon has not as yet been arrived at and until it is, discussion of "grids" is ruled out as of insufficient interest.

So far as I'm concerned (if I didn't force this response and it's roughly true) bully for Geoff !

[Marc Steurbaut]

Has anyone any idea how long thought forms last?
Some places (of pilgrimage) must be saturated with thoughtforms...

Marc

[Geoff Stuttaford]

I would entirely agree with Richard's comments an would like to comment a little further on Dan's reply...

(D) "I would like to say that Geoff's apparent inability to find H&C lines does not necessarily reflect adversely on his capacity as a dowser. "

Phew !!

(D) "He might be very fortunate in being to reject dowsable phenomena which are of absolutely no use to him ! "

Now there's an idea that could have considerable merit (IMO), and my helper/guide agrees when I dowse it.

(D) "After all, English-speakers generally did not pick them up until prompted by the Germans in the 1980s and even now (unless weak of mind) we don't find their crossing points "adverse" or a problem to be considered seriously, so detecting them is a fairly academic affair for us"

Could I interpret that as ' I didn't know about those lines before the 1980s so their appearance and ability to detect them was not included in the dowsing DNA I was born with ...assuming we are born with only the talents we have acquired as a result many incarnations. That would imply that we do not acquire any further dowsing abiliies after we are born.

(D) "However, this doesn't address what the reason might be. I can't do map dowsing location by east-west, north-south coordinates accurately if indoors and after exhaustive dowsing know that this is thanks to an inherited fear of possible attackers hidden behind walls. If I sit in my car with a view all round there is no problem (and, for some reason, angular co-ordinate location always works regardless of situation). Is an unconscious inhibition of this sort active in Geoff's case ?"

Well I know I am practically hopeless at finding people's personal items. I was rung up yesterday by a lady who wanted me to find her son's stolen motor bike. Had to turn down that request. I know my limitations in that field.

(D) "I get a "no" for this. Very well, is the reason easily understood ? Again a "no".

Ditto.


"Very well, so I will go into guided writing "words in the head" mode. What does the internal teleprinter say ?
Quote:
Essentially this is a prohibition within Geoff of being encumbered
with insufficiently accurately defined concepts. A useful interpretation of the "grids" phenomenon has not as yet been arrived at and until it is, discussion of "grids" is ruled out as of insufficient interest."

That means two things to me...1. I cannot pick up H&C Lines because I have no mental concept of what they actually are, and 2. because of 1, I will never be able to pick up those particular lines whether they exist or not.

So thank you, Dan and Richard, for your contributions. It leaves me with a slight impression that H&C Lines might be included in people's personal property that I cannot find.

Geoff

[Grahame]

I've split this thread into another one called thoughtforms as it has gone rather off-topic.

[Grahame]

I agree that all energy leys have a cyclical nature linked to the planetary movements

Is there an observed pattern in those strength movements, or is it just a
statement?
I read the statement everywhere, but so far nobody has made an attempt to 'map' it with statistics...

Marc, I wanted to comment further on this point - it's something that you and I talked about some time ago now, back when I was a member of your Yahoo group. I hinted at some of the new theories about planetary interactions, vector mechanics and Torsion Field Theory then but was unable to comment further as the material was unpublished.
I'm glad to say that two further articles by Billy Gawn and Jim Lyons covering this material are now available online in the EEG newsletters section as I've just converted the March 2004 issue; I think you'll find them of interest...