Remote Viewing - a link with aspects of dowsing?

[Geoff L]

Please pardon the impertinence from a newbie to the forum (but not to dowsing) but I’m prompted to post this - indeed start a new topic - by one of life’s minor synchronicities. Yesterday I was half-way through watching the film/video I’ll refer to, and I was prompted to return to the forum by a case which seemed essentially to be map dowsing, though not named as such. And lo and behold, I found Mark/SparkTalker’s post from a week ago on the topic ofResearching Examples of Dowsing Successes/theories for a book. (Probably too late for latter, as the original enquiry dates from 2019). More on this below.

The video is Third Eye Spies and it’s on YouTube
More widely, in relation to the ‘cosmology of life’, IMHO it’s one of the most important films ever made. Why? Because it provides in a tad under two hours overwhelming evidence that consciousness is not brain-based – thus defeating the modern western scientific/materialist/reductionist contention (exemplified by the awful pseudo-sceptics who man the barricades in Wikipedia) that psychic and paranormal phenomena are just woo.

I’m fairly confident that almost every dowser will find this as fascinating as I do. It’s about the US government’s 20 year programme of remote viewing, initially undertaken at arms-length through Stanford Research Institute, then brought in-house within the CIA. Referring back to the initial prompt question “has anyone heard of a Russian plane being successfully located through dowsing (with some connection to President Carter)? Someone mentioned it to me but I can't find any details online” – this is dealt with at some length in the film. Sorry to say dowsing isn’t given credit as such: a ‘medium’ is referred to at the start, and more info further on.

The film is based on the work of Russell Targ (in particular) and Hal Puthoff, and I assume on Russell’s book “The Reality of ESP: A Physicist’s Proof of Psychic Abilities”. And with reference to the earlier enquiry as to “Theories for a book” again with impertinence of a newbie, can I raise for discussion that perhaps map-dowsing, and a professional water-dowser’s ability to tell the depth and usable quantity of water, are a form of remote viewing? As I understand it, in remote viewing, a remote viewer moves the focus of his/her consciousness to a location and/or time outside of his/her physical presence, and five senses. Are the these tapping into the same source as those aspects of dowsing – an aspect of a/the larger consciousness that we inhabit or a part of? Are these essentially slightly different manifestations of the same psychic ability?

I’d be interested in any comments both on the film, and the metaphysical question posed.

Geoff L.

[Grahame]

Related thread - Remote viewing "proven" says skeptic

Geoff, welcome to the forum and thanks for posting on an interesting topic. I shall leave your post where it is for now, but in due course I'm going to merge it with the other thread to keep things tidy.

[SparkTalker]

Hiya Geoff.

I stayed up last night and watched the video through in one sitting. I initially thought "Two hours long!", but after watching it I was surprised at how quickly the time had passed (because the contents was so interesting and absorbing). I could well imagine watching it a number of times to get the fullest from it. I do think anyone viewing it needs an ad-blocker running on their computer, as looking at the timeline for the video it looks as though there were many ad's embedded, which if they had have popped up would have greatly detracted from the story being told.

It was interesting how the accuracy of the remote viewers was estimated around 80-85% a number of times throughout the documentary, clearly pointing to a better than chance outcome for all of the tests. There were some very talented remote viewers among the ones highlighted, and I can only say well done the scientists involved for, in effect, possibly putting their careers on the line for the sake of the research.

I personally think that it is the same 'source' of information used by the remote viewers as by the 'everyday' water diviner etc. The main difference is possibly how that information is accessed though.

A good example that comes to mind to illustrate what I mean can be found in modern day 3-D printing. In such a system it is possible to 'see' the 3-D model on a screen, or to print out the G-code on paper and see the data that makes up the structure of the model, or, you can actually print a 3-D the model and in so doing produce a physical item. So three ways to experience the same information.

So in the example of the remote viewers in the video, they used their minds eye to see the targets in question and then a pen and paper to manifest a hard copy. In dowsing though there does seem to be a more unconscious or unaware approach to obtaining the information, with the 'physical manifestation' experienced by way of movement of the dowsing rods/pendulum or whatever.

Thanks for the link to the video!

Mark...

[Geoff L]

Hi Mark

Glad you found it so absorbing. (And btw, I didn’t have any problem with adverts except briefly at the opening…not sure about my ad-blocker). I like a recent analogy from Dean Radin about consciousness. A couple of quotes from the same section of the book I’m part way through:

“Let’s assume that the esoteric traditions are correct and that personal consciousness [c] and Universal Consciousness [C] are made of the same “stuff”. Personal consciousness [c] may be thought of not as a tiny piece of [C] that has broken off and is separate from the rest of the universe, but rather as the tip of an extremely large “iceberg” of consciousness.” And “What [c] can express about [C] is severely limited because [C] is inconceivably larger than everyday reality. As such, [C] is also beyond ordinary concepts and language. That’s why mystics are always frustrated when asked to describe their experience. The moment we step beyond the ordinary, language fails”. (Incidentally, that's also common to testimonies of those who've had Near Death Experiences - 'words are just insufficient').


What he implies is that psychically, some people (the films says everyone) is able to contact the vastness of [C] that is seemingly submerged. And I’m in agreement with your proposition that “I personally think that it is the same ‘source’ of information used by the remote viewers shown, and the everyday water diviner etc. The main difference is possibly how that information is accessed”, and your explanatory analogy.

Highlighting just one pile-driver of an argument for the validity of remote viewing from the film (there are plenty of others), I noted down the retirement tribute to the Army RV star, Joe McGonigle. “While with his command, Joe used his talents and expertise in the execution more than 200 missions addressing over 150 Essential Elements of Information. These EEI contained critical intelligence reported at the highest echelons on military and government including such national level agencies as Joint Chiefs of Staff, the DIA, the CIA, the NSA, the DEA, and the Secret Service, providing crucial and vital intelligence, unavailable from any other source”.

It really is time that mainstream science understood and accepted that psi phenomena including of course dowsing, are real, and are a part of the world and cosmos we inhabit: they’ve had their fingers in the ears far too long saying 'No, we don't need to look at what you call evidence, we know in advance it's nonsense'. That is just profoundly unscientific.

Geoff.

[SparkTalker]

The quote: "...and vital intelligence, unavailable from any other source” caught my attention too!

I was watching a video about dowsing in general last night, and the presenter also made the comment that it is difficult to describe what a dowser 'sees' or 'feels', or how they 'know' the information they are able to pass on. He went on to use an often quoted example, but very relevant one; "How would you describe the colour green to someone who is blind?"

Going back to the video you highlighted, I liked the section where it was mentioned that pretty well anyone could experience 'remote viewing', not just a special few (although some are clearly more 'gifted' than others). What amused me no end was where they were talking about how they send out someone to an unknown location (unknown to those being tested that is), and then the subjects try their hand at 'seeing' the surroundings of the subject in the field.

As the narration was going along, and it was mentioned that they visit two locations, I immediately had the image of a row of palm trees pop in to my mind (I had no idea why), then a few seconds later some video footage was shown of the first of the two areas visited and blow me down it was EXACTLY what I had just seen!

I didn't have time to think about the second location due to the rapidity of the progress of the story. I would have loved to have found out if I could have got two for two!

Mark...

[Geoff L]

Mark

Wonderful! Love your flash of intuition with the palm trees - experiential remote viewing in action, first hand. Well done.

I resonated with the bit in the film where someone, perhap Russell Targ or Hal Puthoff (can't recall) not only said that anyone can do it, but ability can, like music vary between the naturally gifted virtuoso on the one hand, and the tone deaf on the other (or words to that effect). Doubtless most people will be somewhere in between; and, as with all talents and abilities, there's nothing like practice to hone a skill. Although I've been out of dowsing for a while, presumably the same applies. And the maxim I was told when I first joined Devon Dowswers was just the same - everyone can do it, as long as they think they can.

By the way, IF you wanted to hear more from Russell Targ and you're into podcasts, go to 'The Unexplained' podcast with Howard Hughes, Edition 485 back on October 4th 2020. Although there's a fair bit of duplication of the film material, there's also quite a lot of additional/different material. Very interesting stuff, imo.

And I'd be interested in comments from others on the forum if the mood takes you.

Best wishes,

Geoff L.

[Geoff L]

Hi
Have just found that Russell Targ also did a Tedx Talk on ESP. More accurately, he gave the talk and Tedx posted it - but subsequently it was decided (as I understand it) that it was too controversial, for some unfathomable reason (ok, probably because it confounds mainstream science/the orthodox materialist understanding of reality).....so it was removed from Ted. Fortunately, someone had a copy and uploaded it to YouTube.

Obviously there's much more detail in the film Third Eye Spies, as this is only half an hour long, rather than a tad under two hours, and it's the same basic story, but with some slightly different comments/content. One minor point was that he mentions the programme of remote viewing for the US Government - in particular the CIA and the DIA/Defence Intelligence Agency - actually ran for 23 years. That's clearly a massive endorsement of the success of psychic powers/insight from hard-headed government agencies such as those.

Also, since I initially posted on this topic about a week ago, I came across some more information on the programme from reading Dean Radin's book 'Real Magic' (check it out). In a secret DIA Report in March 1995 (subsequently declassified as a result of a Freedom of Information request) the DIA concluded that "The evidence for a valid information transfer anomaly [a committee euphemism for remote viewing] meets all recognized statistical and methodological criteria. This means the anomaly cannot be explained by poor experimental design, incorrect protocols, faulty analysis, or fraud."

ATB,

Geoff L.