Torcs & Lakhovsky Coils & Slim Spurling

[An Ri Rua]

Hello fellow dowsers,

I've been gone a while. Been browsing but couldn't locate my password and then didn't have much to say!

This time last year, on a thread started by Ian Pegler about whether dowsers go out and find stuff much, I introduced the topic of torcs and how I felt they resonated for me when I saw them. How they reminded me of Slim Spurling's devices.

Now that I'm wearing a twisted copper coil of John Living's design (http://www.in2it.ca), I'm more and more convinced that the makers of the 'twisted torcs' of 1200BC onwards knew exactly what they were doing when they both twisted gold which is an even greater conductor of electricity than copper (isn't it?) but also a gazillion times more attractive and more rare. http://www.unc.edu/celtic/catalogue/torc/Torcs.html shows the extent of the design of that period and I think they definitely understood the effects of twisting the metal and of increasing the vitality of the wearer.

It cannot be mere coincidence that "Torcs also served as the spoil after battle if the Celtic army was defeated. One Roman warrior, T. Manlius Torquatus earned his name after having taken a torc from a fallen warrior. By stealing the torc, Torquatus in essence captured the warrior’s strength and conferred it onto himself. This tale suggests the mystical power of the torc."

Your considered opinions?



Edited by I.P. 21.10.10 - corrected broken link and typo

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Also in that article is the extract ….

“For the Greek or Roman (and perhaps for the twentieth-century scholar), the torc reflects the "considerable vanity of the Celtic peoples and their delight in gaudy ostentation."

That dowses to be true, but…..

“For the Celt, the torc served as a symbol of strength, power, and royalty. When worn in battle the torc could protect the warrior from defeat.”

That dowses as pure conjecture by the writer.

“By stealing the torc, Torquatus in essence captured the warrior’s strength and conferred it onto himself. This tale suggests the mystical power of the torc."

I think you will find that any ornament worn for any length of time by a person will absorb the essence of that person so I would not regard a torc as being in any way special in that respect. I have come across antique articles that were handled originally by someone who suffered from some disease or other and have absorbed the energy of that disease as a result. The energy of that disease can be passed on to the present owner if the article is handled too much, or worn as an ornament.

I understand that cannibals ate their enemies because they believed that they absorbed the energy of their enemies by doing so.


Edited by I.P. 21.10.10 - put quotes in mark-up, added link to article.

[An Ri Rua]

I think you will find that any ornament worn for any length of time by a person will absorb the essence of that person so I would not regard a torc as being in any way special in that respect. I have come across antique articles that were handled originally by someone who suffered from some disease or other and have absorbed the energy of that disease as a result. The energy of that disease can be passed on to the present owner if the article is handled too much, or worn as an ornament.
I understand that cannibals ate their enemies because they believed that they absorbed the energy of their enemies by doing so.

Hi Geoff,

thanks for that.

Do you think that this is why there was (is) such an emphasis on relics over the years? Even pieces of cloth?

[Geoff Stuttaford]

Hi Red King,

"Do you think that this is why there was (is) such an emphasis on relics over the years? "

Good point. Highly probably IMO. I would think that belief plays a very big part in the worship or even the touch of a relic.

Even pieces of cloth?

I wondered if you were referring the Shroud of Turin. I'm not so sure about cloth, though. I was discussing that particular point with a friend in the US about 10 minutes ago and she told me that she was able to feel that a particular article of clothing, that had not been worn for some time, had lost its energy and could be regarded as 'dead' and had to be thrown away. That presupposes that the article was imbued with life when it was made, attracted a buyer because of the life it had, absorbed more energy from the wearer when it was worn, and eventually lost all its energy when it was cast off.

Interesting ideas but does it mean that the vibrational level contained in a comparatively solid article, like a torc, lasts longer than that of a relatively insubstantial substance such as cloth

[An Ri Rua]

Nope, not a Turin man myself

I meant general relics that I have seen passed around and sold. Tiny pieces of fabric that may have come from Padre Pio etc. That sort of thing.

With regards to torcs (generally) but lakhovsky coils specifically, do you (any of you) find that the wearing of a twisted copper coil improves your dowsing? This is a claim made by some dowsers and aired on John Living's website http://www.in2it.ca

[Geoff Stuttaford]

I meant general relics that I have seen passed around and sold. Tiny pieces of fabric that may have come from Padre Pio etc. That sort of thing.

Ummm.......no.

With regards to torcs (generally) but lakhovsky coils specifically, do you (any of you) find that the wearing of a twisted copper coil improves your dowsing? This is a claim made by some dowsers and aired on John Living's website http://www.in2it.ca

Ummm.....no, again. IMO, experience and the ability to ask the right questions are the only two things that will improve ones dowsing.

[Bonnie]

On his website, Mr. Living states that his findings have been "tested...with excellent results." But I wonder by whom, and in what manner? Everything about dowsing methods, per se (choice of device, manner of operation) seems to be subjective, and I tend to agree with Geoff when he asserts his opinion that experience and knowing how to phrase questions are the keys to accuracy. The Aurameter, for example, features a prominent coil in its design and is available in a copper-plated version; yet Vern Cameron (its originator) found that while some people seem to be especially sensitive to copper, others do not. One might then wonder if the coil were the more important feature of Mr. Living's Ptah Pendulum; yet a coil is not necessary for accurate dowsing, either (as those who use rods or plain wooden pendulums will attest).

In the end, the tool - whether deviceless, or designed and manufactured - seems to me less central to effective dowsing than the operator. It might be that the Ptah Pendulum does, in fact, work better than a conventional pendulum for some people, in which case by all means its use would be justified by those persons; but I doubt that we can arrive at hard-and-fast conclusions about which designs or materials work better overall...even for specific applications. Interesting topic!

[arthur hamlin]

I have just wrote a long article in reply which took ages to assemble and am now feeling quite guttted.
I clicked to preview than it was gone, and have to say this is not the first time it has happened here and wonder if this site has a built in weakness somewhere.
I will now try again to remember what I wrote. Try to calm down first!!!!!

I respectfully request that we try to remember or have regard for the source for what we are gathering as dowsers, even though our opinions vary as to what this source is.
I feel quite strongly that unless we consider what our source is wishing for us in the way of the answers we are requesting consciously than we can expect answers which may not be accurate.
Said that our source can be at fault depending on what source we have.

If we take for instance the Torc. This should have various bands of energy around it plus a vibrationary rate regarding the personality/history of the previous owner/s if someone has not been wiped it clean in the meantime.
Or we can take it to a size larger such as a pulpit in a church for instance where I have found many bands of energy surrounding it from the first preacher using it being the band next the pulpit to the present day preacher who can have his energy noted in an almost circular state surrouding the pulpit several feet away. Where it is not circular will normally be at the back which faces the choir who do not interact with their thoughts effecting the bands as much as the congregation - just like a rich fruit cake - so much to savour!
This is similar to a tree with its physical bands where you can tell the good and bad years depending on sap activity.
I hope that helps - phew!!
Arthur

[An Ri Rua]

(previous post deleted at request of user - GG. You can do that yourself, you know - just click on the little 'X' beside the 'edit' button at the top right of the post ~ Grahame)

On his website, Mr. Living states that his findings have been "tested...with excellent results." But I wonder by whom, and in what manner? Everything about dowsing methods, per se (choice of device, manner of operation) seems to be subjective, and I tend to agree with Geoff when he asserts his opinion that experience and knowing how to phrase questions are the keys to accuracy. The Aurameter, for example, features a prominent coil in its design and is available in a copper-plated version; yet Vern Cameron (its originator) found that while some people seem to be especially sensitive to copper, others do not. One might then wonder if the coil were the more important feature of Mr. Living's Ptah Pendulum; yet a coil is not necessary for accurate dowsing, either (as those who use rods or plain wooden pendulums will attest).

In the end, the tool - whether deviceless, or designed and manufactured - seems to me less central to effective dowsing than the operator. It might be that the Ptah Pendulum does, in fact, work better than a conventional pendulum for some people, in which case by all means its use would be justified by those persons; but I doubt that we can arrive at hard-and-fast conclusions about which designs or materials work better overall...even for specific applications. Interesting topic!

Hmmm, I can't say I agree with this fully? Nor completely with what Geoff has stated. I do think there's a physical element to dowsing that you're ignoring. You're presuming that the operator's bodies are all the same yet this is not the case. Judy Jacka documents the work of Fran Nixon, a Canadian dowser http://www.amazon.com/Vivaxis-Connectio ... 1571742085 and here it is propounded that the body must be 'returned' to its optimal state in order to be able to bio-locate. This is done via the use of charcoal, I can't recall the exact process. But essentially, our bodies get screwed up because of non-harmonic electrical and radiation patterns that are foisted upon them. Perhaps some are better experienced and can therefore resist the degrading effects of our modern electrical / radiation world or perhaps some are genetically better able to resist but while many of us 'device' dowsers are reliant on the mind-body connection and the micro-movements necessary to elicit answers, then it is incumbent upon us as dowsers to seek to improve the physical 'platform' for successful dowsing, not merely the mental / emotional and spiritual levels.
I have seen the dichotomy before, of physical and of mental dowsers. Personally, I believe that it is incorrect to assume its all intent; clearly there is room for the purely 'physical' dowser including those who rely on long range locators. Again, there's too much evidence (honour-based evidence from colleagues online) to deny the presence of a physical dowsing experience that has nothing to do with faith / intent whatsoever.

"Dr. Jacka emphasizes that Vivaxis is physical, not astral, energy.

She describes how Vivaxis was discovered and its relationship with other Earth energies, such as ley lines. Central to understanding Vivaxis is acknowledgment of the Earth as a living being with its own energy fields. Earth, and human, energy is affected by the other planets as well as the sun and the moon. Dr. Jacka explains how receptors on the human body, many of which lie on the meridians established centuries ago by acupuncturists, receive and process all energy. She also discusses the role of the chakras and related glands.

Negative energies, such as radiation and electromagnetic pollution, can disturb the receptors and energy fields of most people, and Dr. Jacka explains how to protect oneself against them.

Dr. Jacka details the various techniques used for understanding Vivaxis and how to use it. She provides nearly 30 exercises that anyone can do for restoring and enhancing their life energies, stimulating and improving memory, treating some common ailments, and creating environmentally safe places. She also offers hints for travelers and explains how to scan the energy field of others for disturbances."

I agree with Arthur, that accepting source is 3/4 of the battle. How it works out in between source and end result may in fact differ from operator to operator. Personally, I DO think there is a strong Herxheimer effect to be had in wearing a Lakhovsky coil. I've just experienced 3 days of it. I DO think this detoxing will also significantly aid my dowsing i.e. inter-cell communication, both inter and intra-body.

Thoughts?

[Bonnie]

I do think there's a physical element to dowsing that you're ignoring. You're presuming that the operator's bodies are all the same yet this is not the case.

I think I must have written my post in a muddled way, because what I intended to express was precisely my view that operators' bodies are all different...hence their varying responses to devices, coils, materials and so on. I am familiar with the work you cite and (of course) don't dispute it, since it does not conflict with anything in my learning or experience.

[simonwheeler]

Bonnie: their varying responses to devices, coils, materials and so on

An Ri Rua:I DO think there is a strong Herxheimer effect to be had in wearing a Lakhovsky coil. I've just experienced 3 days of it. I DO think this detoxing will also significantly aid my dowsing i.e. inter-cell communication, both inter and intra-body.

An Ri Rua: I believe that it is incorrect to assume its all intent

Being provocative ( ), as the connections between "intent" and belief are huge, is not this argument spurious? Surely, whether or not you use a rod, pendulum, heron, copy of the Daily Mail, your own fingertips or nothing at all is irrelevant- the fact that you are using something implies a belief (and so intent) that the "something" will work.

[Geoff Stuttaford]

An ri rua

I agree with Arthur, that accepting source is 3/4 of the battle. How it works out in between source and end result may in fact differ from operator to operator.

I find that your source is different from mine, Arthur's and Bonnie's
Mine is different from Arthur's but the same as Bonnie's. Accepting someone else's source is much more of a problem when answers do not agree with yours. IMO only experience can determine whether there is any interference with answers. As Bonnie says, we are all different so should we not use whatever we find best for us as individuals where tools and sources are concerned ?

BTW I don't think you will find any earth energies in Ley Lines.

[Bonnie]

Surely, whether or not you use a rod, pendulum, heron, copy of the Daily Mail, your own fingertips or nothing at all is irrelevant- the fact that you are using something implies a belief (and so intent) that the "something" will work.

Yes, I think that, too...beyond the device is the concept, so in a broad sense the device is not even the issue. Still, it seems to me that the tool (external or deviceless) functions as a bridge between one's uniquely constellated self and one's source, and assumes relevance as a practical matter; this meanders organically into discussion about the nature and function of tools as expressions of our individual selves.

My thought is that intention is closely fused with biology as a function of the overall bodymind complex; the body unites with the mind to complete an energetic circuit, and in that way chemistry becomes alchemy. One's preferred method of dowsing thus focuses a uniquely patterned, sensitive interaction between oneself and one's source, incorporating many levels and layers of being. So, while in principle one could indeed dowse with a heron or the Daily Mail, one's personal preference might be to use a pendulum instead; that would represent his or her "specific gravity," or ratio of self-to-substance.

I am not sure that belief is always a function of intention (or vice versa), since my intention might be (for example) to function as a conduit for healing; but I don't know precisely how that will be accomplished by the higher forces, or even if it will. I have a general expectation, based on experience, that dowsing will be useful in that setting and that I will be shown how to do my part (even if my part is to do nothing for the moment)...but my actual belief is that the higher forces work will overshadow and guide the process, even if it is in a manner that is not apparent to me at the time.

[Geoff Stuttaford]

I am not sure that belief is always a function of intention (or vice versa), since my intention might be (for example) to function as a conduit for healing; but I don't know precisely how that will be accomplished by the higher forces, or even if it will. I have a general expectation, based on experience, that dowsing will be useful in that setting and that I will be shown how to do my part (even if my part is to do nothing for the moment)...but my actual belief is that the higher forces work will overshadow and guide the process, even if it is in a manner that is not apparent to me at the time.

Agreed, Bonniew, agreed.

[Harri]

Oooooh Seeeeeth!!!
Deep breath......
Just had my beautifully constructed reply expire on me too.
So now you'll have to try to make sense of a quickly typed gist if its original perfection (I like to imagine )
I have a favourite dowsing wand that I would feel lost without, just a length of plastic. In the past I have used a length of copper thick wire/ thin rod or a length of willow and don't think the conductivity of the material made any difference, but MY lovely bit of plastic has just the right weight, bounce and flexability, like a favourite file or saw-frame that you can trust to do the job because it feels right.
However, as a jeweller I'm interested in the concept of amulets and talismans (talismen? ) I have made commissioned pieces to be used in a magical or energetic way by the wearer. I don't claim to load them with power, or for the symbolism to load a piece with power, it's up to the wearer to dedicate it in their own way, including wearing it for a length of time. I do work on the piece with a positive attitude that they can become what the wearer intends though. Many people seem to like an object to believe in. Do you think visualising a symbolic silver pendant or a gold twisted torc could be just as effective?